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Old 01-09-2013, 10:53 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestep View Post
Warning: rant ahead.

I know some folks will disagree, but I think it's insanely unethical to crossbreed dogs for the purpose of Flyball. Like there aren't enough driven, energetic, athletic mixed breeds in shelters that wouldn't excel at it? Isn't that pretty much what Flyball was created FOR? So many pet owners give up their dogs *because* they can't handle that crazy drive... at least in my local shelter, I could walk up and down and point out half a dozen dogs that would LOVE to be adopted to a Flyball enthusiast.

But human beings are vain, and some want to WIN above all else, to the point that they totally lose perspective. It happens in every sport, but for things like Agility and Flyball that were created just so that mixed-breed, shelter dogs had a sport to participate in... IMO it's incredibly short-sighted and selfish to bring new mutt litters into the world when there are already too many mutt litters.

/rant
But you can say this about ANY sport or hobby or line of work. The exact same could be said about show line GSDs or working line GSDs.

I used to think it was crazy but now having actually *done* flyball alongside many of these dogs and their breeders, I'll probably get one. Not just for flyball (and believe me, my dog and my team are not winners!) but because I like their size, coat, overall temperament, smaller dog with a more robust temperament, very social and good with other dogs, excellent with kids. I see Border Staffy breeders that put a LOT more into their breeding programs than most GSD breeders. They know as many generations of pedigree and have already thought through the breedings for generations to come. There are usually long waiting lists for good breeders. I see a lot of uniformity in the litters (great sport dogs and great temperaments) and most of them go to people that are really active with their dogs. Not everyone that does flyball is obsessed with winning, but when you are doing a *sport* it's important to have a dog that can do it *safely* and these dogs have the right conformation. Just like how we criticize people for intentionally breeding 100+lb GSD and advertizing that they are great for SchH or police work. Using your logic all breeding of dogs for any athletic activity is selfish and short-sighted. Maybe the concept of domestic dogs is selfish and short-sighted...

Also I think it's horribly unfair to start blaming Border Staffy breeders for shelter dogs. Really? So GSD breeders are exempt? Only breeds that we don't like or understand we blame for shelter dogs? I can't stand the attitude that any time I buy a purposely bred dog I'm killing shelter dogs or somehow putting more dogs in a shelter. I do rescue and my last foster is....you guessed it...doing flyball! When I am looking for a new dog I have very specific criteria and I don't need to be guilted into going to a shelter. Why is it that good breeders always get blamed and no one ever calls out the OWNERS of those dogs who failed them and landed them in the shelter?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:05 AM   #42 (permalink)
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My experience with mals (my club was about 75% mals) is that they do tend to be smaller than GSDs. There were a few exceptions but even the ones as tall as GSDs are built smaller, less body, more leg and generally just more agile. I have seen a few with horrendous fronts though! Most people who had them, they did not live loose in the house because they didn't settle, seems to me that they never really tried to teach them to settle but who knows. Most of them lived in kennels/pens and were brought out to work and exercise then back to the kennel. I do know one person who has 4! Mals and he says most of the time they are all loose in the house (supervised) and he also has 4 kids, so I think it can be done.

Maybe to OT but I am super curious about these sport mixes. Anyone know what they are like? Obviously good at sports, but nerves, general attitude etc anyone have a good read on them?


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Old 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Depends on what mix you mean. I know there are Mals x terrier but I don't know any of those. Around me it is Border Staffies and a few Border Whippets, though the temperament of the Whippet makes them harder to train. I REALLY like Border Staffies though I'm not really enamored with either breed on it's own. The ones that we have on our team and race against I really like. I would like one some day but right now am more committed to GSDs and don't want more than 3 dogs.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:10 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Standard Mals don't get above 80lbs, the average for female is 60 where as male is 75. It's not that Zoey needs the fetch, she needs her energy drained just like any other dog, expect Mali's just have more energy. If you have a working GSD, Mali's require a bit more but I think you would be fine with one. It's really hard to judge since I know of you through a forum, but there's a reason to the mal's rarity among other breeds.

A puppy Mali is a nightmare.... watch this video.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:10 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure I have footage of an all border staffie flyball team at home. I'll try to post it later... They also look VERY cool!

[EDIT]- Nickyb- I hate that video more than perhaps any other video on youtube. In my opinion, the only thing that video shows is a crazy dog- nothing more. The breed is irrelevant.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
I'm pretty sure I have footage of an all border staffie flyball team at home. I'll try to post it later... They also look VERY cool!

[EDIT]- Nickyb- I hate that video more than perhaps any other video on youtube. In my opinion, the only thing that video shows is a crazy dog- nothing more. The breed is irrelevant.
I could show you 100 more mali puppy videos. 99 of them have the same energy levels, the one I posted just has more views.

Again what info are you looking for exactly? The more I look at your thread, the more I don't know what you want lol

Your original question.
No they range from 45-75lbs and are typically smaller than GSD's.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Haha if you would have stuck my younger GSD in an x pen with A BOX! He would have looked just as stupid at that age lol. At 18 months he settles very nicely in te house (sometimes he's naughty but mostly cause I think it's funny and he knows it.) I think you have to TEACH any high drive dog how you expect them to act in the house.

I'm more interested in the border collie/mal/border terrier mixes. They look cool, nice size, I like the build coat etc. I'm just curious about what their "personality" is like. Does the lisa maze have a website? Gooey and scrabble are stinkin cute!


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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Like most threads, the discussion morphs into different areas. What I was initially asking was about the very tiny mals I see doing flyball. If there is a breed standard for the Malinois, nobody has linked to it yet. Plenty of people are saying that such a small mal is actually "normal" but in the same breath state, like you, that the mals are 45-75 pounds. Those little tiny mals I'm seeing doing flyball are smaller than 45 pounds (probably). The questions were loosely developed against this subset of the malinois population. Where do they come from? Are the still mals? Why are they so small? Are they indeed smaller than "normal?" Etc... I do think those questions have all been answered.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:25 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Nadeen on here has a dog from her.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:27 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
Like most threads, the discussion morphs into different areas. What I was initially asking was about the very tiny mals I see doing flyball. If there is a breed standard for the Malinois, nobody has linked to it yet. Plenty of people are saying that such a small mal is actually "normal" but in the same breath state, like you, that the mals are 45-75 pounds. Those little tiny mals I'm seeing doing flyball are smaller than 45 pounds (probably). The questions were loosely developed against this subset of the malinois population. Where do they come from? Are the still mals? Why are they so small? Are they indeed smaller than "normal?" Etc... I do think those questions have all been answered.
I'm guessing there's just a range. Just like people think Nikon is small at 70-75lbs and I find him normal (as does his conformation judges and breed survey). Someone earlier mentioned an 80-85lb GSD bitch, to me that is huge but to many that is a normal GSD. I would personally expect a sporty Mal to be 45-65lbs but the ones I see competing in flyball in my area are actually bigger than my GSDs.
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