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Old 12-03-2012, 04:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
It could be....I really need to watch it [hope I am not seen as judgemental, just really never seen it done this way] and it could be that the screening process for working detector dogs gives you a different starting point with a bold highly confident toy driven dog or puppy. The kind that most folks don't want as a pet.

But I know someone who is a certified nosework instructor in PA and she most assuredly has a very high drive cadaver dog I am certain was not trained the way the classes go.
I don't think you sound judgmental, I appreciate the different point of view. It's something that I'll definitely be discussing with our trainer to learn her take on the subject. She comes from a search and rescue background and she even mentioned to me once (outside of class) that this is not how she starts her dogs for SAR. I did not ask for her to elaborate at the time though. I know that she did the K9 Nose Work workshop but she is not one of their "certified" teachers. It seems that she moves us along a lot faster than what I've heard/seen of other nose work classes.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This is where my dogs owner goes with Fador About Us -- he drives 3 1/2 to 4 hours for one hour work with this man . Says class very good, much like Ramsay's . Instructor said too many people lead their dog as if it were an obedience exercise -- stand back and let the dog figure it out . mmm sounds like something I would say . Looks like a great class.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
It could be....I really need to watch it [hope I am not seen as judgemental, just really never seen it done this way] and it could be that the screening process for working detector dogs gives you a different starting point with a bold highly confident toy driven dog or puppy. The kind that most folks don't want as a pet.

But I know someone who is a certified nosework instructor in PA and she most assuredly has a very high drive cadaver dog I am certain was not trained the way the classes go.
I think it's just that most dogs have a good food drive. They know what that smell of food means without having to teach it. That video was my puppy's second time out, ever, at her first workshop. If I just had the scented oil, she probably wouldn't have bothered getting excited to find it, because she didn't yet know that she'd get a reward on that smell.

I don't think it has to do with the dogs not being able to detect the scents, or not having sufficient drive, but helping them understand that finding it leads to a reward and that is easier to do with food. Then you have the food and the proper scent and just reduce the food as they get better at it.

The lady told me for sure to keep at it with the food.

Both ways likely work just as well, I would think.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't know or not...just not an approach I have seen used so I can't say it is "just as good" or not. A working detector dog has to have documented reliability to stand up in court that a competetive pet does not. But we can often learn from the pet crowd so not throwing out the baby with the bathwater............

But just saying this is more consistent with how I see working detector dogs trained. And then Randy Hare has another set of techniques. Dan just wrote some articles but the imprinting with scented throws then going to primary reward at source is pretty old hat established method.

http://www.k-9bsd.com/downloads/Odor...nHuntDrive.pdf
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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What Andrew does is first determine what reward the dog is most willing to work for - either food or a toy, and then which toy or what kind of food. Then he pairs the reward with the scent right from the beginning, rather than adding it later.

The K9 Nosework people have their own system, and they certify trainers in that system, which involves only searching for food for the first series of classes. If you don't go through their workshops or seminars or whatever, and use their system, you have to call your classes something else or they'll come after you. They are the only ones right now holding trials, but that may change in the future. You can train any way you want, but you have to follow their rules if you want to trial and title your dog in Nosework. The dogs in Andrew's classes have done very well in trials compared to dogs trained the other way, which they don't seem to like.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Andrew posted a blog post on his FB page written by someone who was at one of his recent seminars. There's a description of the training, and a few pictures too: Taj MuttHall Dog Diary: Nosework

For food motivated dogs the reward is in a Viewtainer, which can be bounced off the source like a toy reward:

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Old 12-05-2012, 09:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Just got back from a private lesson with Nosework co-founder Ron Gaunt! He was here for a seminar, but we couldn't attend, so we signed up for a lesson. It was a great opportunity!
Mikko has a problem with trying to pick up whatever the odor is hidden in and he had great ideas to work through that. And also great ideas to really make his brain work, solving problems.

We've been on just odor for a while now, but I don't think we really needed to start on just food since Mikko knew what the game was already, but we just went with the flow of the class and went to paired odor after four classes anyway.
I guess since the sport is geared to many different dogs, some of which may not have the same drive, it's important to start on food with no odor because you can always add the odor when they're ready, but can't take it away if they don't understand.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:40 AM   #28 (permalink)
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this is from someone who has his NoseWork one , training for NoseWork two . " We have four element which is, car search it could be to at the beginning to five at the next stage that I will do.
-as well box search there is 20 box and have to find the right one of course.
- third element is interior
-forth one is exterior search side of a building playground etc.
you have each of those elements under three minutes.


Tthe second trial the one I'm going at you can have one too to hide and larger areas as well to different Sent and some distraction like dog "P" or food, If the Dog P. On the Course Is Automatically Disqualify, No Jumping on the Car, Cannot Disturb Or Break The Boxes Etc.


the idea obviously is to do it under three minutes two pass the test but the competition starts how fast you are to find each element. so technically you have 12 minutes to find them all."

FOOD is deliberately put as a distraction!

this "And also great ideas to really make his brain work, solving problems." idea was mentioned as many people bring the dog to training and this includes SAR and they either approach it as an obedience or agility excercise , or they don't allow the dog enough time to figure it out, they step in too soon and help or actually do the exercise themselves. May as well keep the dog in the car then .
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:53 AM   #29 (permalink)
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What I really like, is it's a good activity for young dogs to do without overtaxing their growing limbs.

Thanks for all the ideas, I'm going to check out some of those links.
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