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Old 07-31-2012, 10:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Darn- sorry Heidigsd. I wish I would have gotten back to you sooner. I can say that I've found a way to more/less work both "positions." I put a hook in the corner of my training room where I setup my nosework lab. I then got a LONG lead (30') and hook it on the hook. I can then hold the lead as you would in a restrained recall while I hide the find. I can then get her amped up and finally release the long lead. It works pretty well though is not as good as two people, obviously.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
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It's ok...this isn't the first DVD I ever wasted money on. Of course I ordered the scent kit to go along with it

I totally forgot about the nosework lab which I can't set up, the garage would be the only place but it's way to hot out there now. I'll just have to use the boxes and other objects.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Why can't you tell the dog to stay in another room while you hide the treat and/or odor? We're in our second level of Nosework classes and I practice by myself a lot, both at home and at parks.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #24 (permalink)
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The Ramsey method relies a lot on the dog getting amped up from seeing "the trainer" place the hide (whether that's the real hide, or acting like it's the real hide). It does this as a way to both build drive as well as to teach a search pattern. One thing that I found desperately missing from our "random box" nosework classes is even a semblance of a search pattern.

Also, in the Ramsey system, the trainer is the one to throw the reward for the dog. I think that the handler could reliably do this, but based on the DVD it does seem that the reward can be more effectively delivered from someone who isn't holding the lead.

Can nosework be trained with only one person? Most definitely. But I do like a lot of the things Ramsey shows in the DVD. I don't consider it a waste of money at all, but I do wish I had a second person to help with training. At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing. Hiding a treat in a box and letting my dog figure out on her own how to randomly find it is not what I consider training. There was no introduction to the scent, there was no expectation of a search pattern, there was no mention of an indicator (actually- the thought of a trained indication was discouraged). In my opinion, the DVD gives you much more info than a beginner class, AND sets you up for a more successful trial experience if you want to go to competitions.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:54 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
The Ramsey method relies a lot on the dog getting amped up from seeing "the trainer" place the hide (whether that's the real hide, or acting like it's the real hide). It does this as a way to both build drive as well as to teach a search pattern. One thing that I found desperately missing from our "random box" nosework classes is even a semblance of a search pattern.

Also, in the Ramsey system, the trainer is the one to throw the reward for the dog. I think that the handler could reliably do this, but based on the DVD it does seem that the reward can be more effectively delivered from someone who isn't holding the lead.

Can nosework be trained with only one person? Most definitely. But I do like a lot of the things Ramsey shows in the DVD.
Interesting. Okay, I get building the drive- but does that not teach the dog to drive ahead, potentially missing a find right at the threshold? Also what do you mean by throw the reward? Do you still reward at the find first in order to build the association as well as develop an alert?

I agree, my box class did not teach a search pattern at all- I guess I'm lucky that Mikko is very methodical in searching as has developed his own.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Mikko- it's funny you mention that about driving ahead and potentially missing a find right at the threshold. My class instructor also had the same feeling and continually pressed me about not amping Pimg up in class. Here are my thoughts:

1) Dogs learn when at a certain arousal level; it's a bell curve. Get them under aroused and they couldn't care less about your training. Get them over aroused and they can't process the learning. I want my dog at the threshold of peak arousal for learning, and taking her into a room dead as a doorknob is not, in my opinion, conducive to learning. The two other dogs in my beginning nosework class were severely under aroused, in my opinion. One of the forum members here was in my class, and when she started asking for arousal building behaviors (a hand touch really got her dog moving and stimulated) her success in finding the hide was drastically improved. The other dog's owner was about as dull as can be, and her dog struggled and struggled to show any sign of life, let alone arousal and learning. I always amped Pimg up with some tugging right before releasing her to "find it" and she was quite often very fast and determined to find the hide.

2) The DVD does take into account this common problem of the dog blowing past the find. In fact, a large portion of the DVD is dedicated to exactly this. Ramsey's "search pattern" philosophy teaches the dog to search the closest spot first. When the dog is over aroused and blows past, he will simply move the find to a closer spot for a number of repetitions. You well know that dogs are so freakin' smart. They figure out fast that they don't have to blow past the first couple boxes/drawers/whatever because the find might just be in there. Once they are adjusted to looking close first, he will then reposition the find to a harder location. In a lot of ways, this is the same thing as in Susan Garrett's 2x2 method with training the entry poles prior to adding the next set of poles. Almost exactly the same...
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Okay, that makes sense and seems like it would definitely get the dog to search the closer areas. This might be useful in really distracting settings too (last week in class we took a field trip to the local pet store-which Mikko loves- and had to find the treat/odor there- the first time Mikko found many treats before he found the one with the odor )

Mikko loves the game and has always loved the game of finding things- the wait gets him amped up enough. It's funny when I leave the room to hide it, he's complaining the whole time- barking and crying
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing.
I paid $175 for a six week class
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing.
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Originally Posted by Heidigsd View Post
I paid $175 for a six week class
Luckily I got a deal on the first set of classes (4 1.5 hr classes) for $40, but had to pay regular price, $102 for the next set. I would have been disappointed if I paid the full price for the first set since Mikko already knew how to search.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I thought some of you might be interested - Andrew created a yahoo group to discuss nosework: noseworktraininggroup : Nosework Training Group

I bet he would be able to answer questions about how to train on your own, or maybe other people could share how they do it.

He's also on Facebook, both as an individual, and with his business Ramsey K9.
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