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Old 05-27-2010, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Trivia: GSD have about 5 million more olfactory nerves than other breeds...no wonder they make great "sniffers"!
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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North American Police Work Dog Association - Training Tips

I can't any reference to them breeding any of the breeds they use other than the mals.



As far as what medics might be 'practicing" on, I have no idea.
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That was an interesting read, although the following quote is not actually true.

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I should note here that the DoD is not in the business of procuring Patrol only or Protection only dogs. All dogs are dual purpose detection and patrol.
The military also has SSDs (Specialized Search Dogs) and Mine Detection Dogs. AFAIK, neither the M-Dogs nor the SSDs are dual purpose dogs. See -

Mighty Dogs of the Military
Engineer K9 - FLW OFFICAL WEBSITE

They also recently brought back the combat tracker teams, whose dogs are also not used to detect drugs or explosives, only to track people. See -
Combat tracking team deploying to Iraq
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The guy I did PPD with worked with the Boston City Police Canine Unit trainers. A neighbor here ran the Connecticut Police Canine Academy and both agree that you can teach most any dog to bite, but only specific dogs can learn when to bite and not bite. Of 100 dogs started in training a low % become working Canines, and of those that pass the initial Canine Officer training only 10% or so are able to go on to do Drug detection... and I assume Bomb detection also.
Breeding programs by the Military, or police are generally aimed at increasing the number of dogs passing certification, and thereby reducing the cost per dog for the training and maintenance of the dogs during training. The Russian Military developed the Black Russian Terrier in such a program...
My concern is for the excess puppies who do not pass certification, are they suitable for pet or sport homes. Are the social traits which we treasure GSD's for being supported in the process, or are they breeding ONLY for guard/protection/bomb/narcotics abilities... and not for dogs who can also be part of a family. Don't have an answer as I have no idea... but that's the one concern I would have.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.K View Post
So the US Military has their own breeding program which kind of worries me.

I am not sure if they realize that one litter can be extremely strong while another litter is just average to weak.
If you realize it, what makes you think that they don't?

This program is staffed by some really knowledgeable people. One of their recently former staff, is one of the top, if not the top, Malinois breeders in the US.


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I don't know if it will pay off and what happens to all those dogs that don't qualify?
Why don't you write to them and ask if it pays off?? Better yet go there and see for yourself. They give tours and all you have to do is ask for one.

Most of the dogs are working out. Those that don't are placed in civilian homes as pets and sportdogs.



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A puppy needs to be raised in a social environment? Can they find foster homes for all those puppies they want to raise?
All the dogs are raised in foster homes and there is a waiting list to become a foster.

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How much does it cost? Is it worth it? Does it pay off or is it more expensive than going off and buying dogs from breeders?
From what I was told the cost is much less than buying dogs.

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I understand their misery but breeding dogs isn't all that simple and I really hope they know what they are doing.
I hope that everyone breeding dogs knows what they are doing. But remember there is no organization in the world with better funding than the US military.

Quote:
Especially since in Grafenwoehr they requested to injure animals to let their medics work on living creatures and create an somewhat real simulations. That caused an outrage and of course their request was denied. But it makes me think... what if they can't find homes for all the dogs they produce? What if some of them end up on a training field, injured, as a test object for a medic?

In Grafenwoehr they wanted to use Goats and Pigs... it was denied over here, but do we know if they don't do it already in the States?

What ya'll think about that?
I think this last part is too stupid and insulting to dignify with an answer.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samba View Post

I can't any reference to them breeding any of the breeds they use other than the mals.

They only breed Malinois. But they use Malinois, Dutch Shepherds and GSDs for sentry and detection work. And sporting type breeds for detection. They also use mixes of the above breeds.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudynRich View Post
Trivia: GSD have about 5 million more olfactory nerves than other breeds...no wonder they make great "sniffers"!
Bull.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HMV View Post
I don't understand why they can't get their dogs from skid row.
They don't care where the dogs come from. If you find one at the pound and it can pass their testing they will buy it from you. Last year I sold them a Springer that my neighbor was going to take to the pound.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AbbyK9 View Post

The majority of dogs in the MWD program are purchased from breeders, and more than half of them come from breeders in Europe, as they produce the type and quality of dogs needed more than breeders in the US do.
It does not have much to do with the the dogs in Europe being higher quality. It has much more to do with the number of dog brokers in Europe. The buyers can go to the brokers and see dozens of dogs at one time. Here in the US it would take weeks to see the same number of dogs. Therefore they buy in Europe.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
It does not have much to do with the the dogs in Europe being higher quality. It has much more to do with the number of dog brokers in Europe. The buyers can go to the brokers and see dozens of dogs at one time. Here in the US it would take weeks to see the same number of dogs. Therefore they buy in Europe.
I believe you are mistaken. The FY2000 audit report is available online at the Department of Defense Inspector Genera's website, direct link to the audit is http://www.dodig.mil/Audit/reports/fy00/00-102.pdf

It states -

Quote:
The FAR 25.102, "Policy", allows an exception to the Buy American Act, if the items are "... not mined, produced or manufactured in the United States in sufficient and reasonably available commercial quantities or of a satisfactory quality." The 341st TRS obtained approval of a "nonavailability determination" from the 37th Contracting Squadron Commander in accordance with FAR 25.102, because the US vendors could not provide sufficient quantities of suitable MWDs to meet DoD requirements. (...)

The 341st TRS initially procured MWDs directly from European vendors when the FY 1997 procurement of 313 MWDs was not met. Of the 495 dogs received from US vendors for evaluation, the 341st TRS accepted 183, which was 130 dogs short of the FY 1997 procurement requirement. The 341st TRS conducted market surveys, advertised in the Commerce Business Daily, and trade publications, in an effort to reach the requirement from US vendors. These actions allowed the 341st TRS to increase the number of basic ordering agreements with US vendors from 6 to 11, and to obtain MWDs from 17 additional sources in FYs 1998 and 1999. Despite the actions of the 341st TRS, US vendors were unable to provide sufficient quantities of MWDs to meet DoD requirements.
If anyone is interested in the procurement of dogs from domestic (or international) vendors, they are posted on the 341st TRS's website, in great detail, at the following link - http://www.lackland.af.mil/shared/me...061211-005.pdf
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