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New GSD Owner - 3 year old being re-homed.

2K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  lytrefry 
#1 ·
I have always wanted a protective breed and have been looking at GSD puppies for a little over a year but my wife was adamant about not having 2 dogs. Well, our 12-year-old mix breed passed due to liver cancer quite suddenly and the rest of the family was ready to fill that void although my wife is hesitant and said she didn't want to deal with a puppy as she has other life changing stress. I did not like not having a dog in the house so my looking never stopped. I came across this ad of a 3-year-old pure black GSD the add described him as needy and hyper. Long story short the ad was placed by a lady who took him in so he would not go to the pound by the original owners, who I was able to meet and discuss his background with. It seems they have his mother, father, and a sister. They were not as accepting of him and pushed him around a bit. I believe he was the runt and had to be hand fed and cared for differently than the rest of the litter. The family seemed to try to find a place for him in the household and it just didn't work out. He was recently nurtured and has been in now 4 different homes in the last month. Overall, he seems to have some good base training that needs to be refreshed and enforced. He has yet to really take a command from me and I have not pushed it as we both are still building trust. Training starts Thursday night with the whole family.

For the bad, he has separation anxiety. We are putting him in his crate when we leave as that was his previous routine until he learns our schedule and we trust him in the house or back yard.
The kids 6 and 2, 98% of the time he is great with them but from reading here he gets mouthy with them when what I feel is he wants to play and that needs to stop quick.
He needs to bond with my wife. He has suddenly turned and barked at me a couple time since I picked him up on Friday. no lunging just barking and no growling either. Today she is alone with him more so I'm hoping he starts to accept her more but has turned to bark at her a few times since they have been alone togeather.
He is also super skinny and needs some bulking up. The last owner only fed him once a day. I have made sure he has food in his bowl all the time poor guy is just stressed.

I will be reading the forum as much as I can to try and not ask all the new guy questions but feel free to give any advice that you have.
 

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#4 ·
I did ask about the homes. They were his original owners, then a friend who took him to keep him out of spca. Between when I took him one other lady tried to take him and from what I was told he did his turn and bark and she felt she couldn't handle the dog. The friends home was overcrowded and a tense environment just on the people side of things, I can't imagine how the dog felt.

My home has been calm and loving for him. I wouldn't quite consider him a project dog but he does need a training refresher and that starts Thursday night with a trainer that has been around him from a puppy. His overall training and temperament has been good. I have a feeling with the extra training and some stability he will be a wonderful dog.

Don't get me wrong if I see any aggression towards my kids he's gone. So far the issues have just been playful pushiness. As in no raised hair or snarling, as soon as he calms from playing the kids climb all over him just get kisses. As we have only had him for the weekend all interaction is closely supervised.
 
#3 ·
Project GSD who comes from God knows where + home with two young children = ER visit

I hope that I don't hurt your feelings, but this dog could have been abused or mistreated at some point in his life maybe even by kids or teens. You should probably find out ASAP if he has ever bitten anyone.

I just don't have a good feeling about this. If you decide to keep him in you'r household you should probably find a professional who can do a temperament evaluation.

He is a very handsome dog by the way. I apologize if I hurt you'r feelings.
 
#5 ·
I agree with the above posters. Your children are too small to have a dog that, at three is mouthy, stressed, barking at you and your wife, with separation anxiety.

If you want a GSD, you should find a reputable rescue orgainization that fosters the dogs, and a complete history, and has tested them with children, etc. Or find a good breeder whose dogs are stable, and you might want to talk to more than just the breeder. Ask the breeder for the name of their vet, maybe a trainer in the area, or people who have their dogs.

A serious bite from a dog you are trying to help, can leave your kid or kids with a horror of dogs or of the breed, and that would be a terrible shame. They (your children) come first. And, even if the dog accepts your kids, a stressed/nervous GSD will most likely be a problem for visiting children. Your kids deserve a normal childhood, not one where friends can't come over, where everyone needs to crate the dog in the basement and lock the door to the basement so no one gets hurt before people come over.
 
#6 ·
No hurt feelings. As I said in my original post. I was able to talk to the owners that raised him. I could tell they cared for him but the rest of the dogs just would not accept him. Only bad thing I could say about them is they tried to make it work with him too long due to the attachment the had to him. He does not act abused at all, he was cautious the first night and has been better every night since. He needs to learn the new routine of the household and the command structure is all. The original owners said he was the least aggressive dog in the pack as his sister they would not recommend for kids. The friend had him for a few weeks with 2 girls 6 and 8 she said he did fine with them also.
 
#7 · (Edited)
If your wife is having life challenges and you have two small children, an adult gsd with issues such as separation anxiety and others does not seem like a good idea right now. I know you mean well and want to 'save' this dog, but don't you think he needs a home with just one rescue experienced person? There are lots of other adult gsds out there who need good homes.
 
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#11 ·
I picked the dog up on Friday while my wife was out of town. She as only been around him since late Saturday night I would not say she is having challenges with him but they do need time to bond. I think it is way to early to make a determination at this point. As I said he has not been aggressive to this point. I would expect any dog to need an adjustment period of some sort. Every day he seems to be gaining more trust. He is starting to take treats from her and today is her run around day so she is in and out of the house he has so far been calm when she opens his crate and not at all hyper. As far as the anxiety he whined a little when I left and was happy to see me when I went home for lunch but he wasn't jumpy or talking at all, just a fast tail wag.
 
#8 ·
Please do a search on the forum for "two-week shutdown." It's incredibly helpful for dogs who've bounced around.

I also recommend doing some reading on "classical counter conditioning" too -- it's sometimes the key to separation anxiety solutions. Dr. Patricia McConnell has a few books that are worth getting. Her little booklet "Love Has No Age Limit" is specifically for adopters of rescued adult dogs -- lots of problem solving tips. She has another one called "I'll Be Home Soon" that's specifically targeted for separation anxiety. You can find them on Amazon, or on her website:
Dogs with Separation Anxiety can be helped | Patricia McConnell | McConnell Publishing Inc.

For a longer read, McConnell recommends Nicole Wild's book "Don't Leave Me," and I'd trust her rec on that -- she discusses it here:
New Info about Treatment for SA? Yes and No.

She's a PhD animal behaviorist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison who is one of the smartest writers about problem-solving issues that I've found. Her website is chock full of helpful info.
 
#9 · (Edited)
He is painfully underweight and you don't know enough about him in your home to allow him full access to your children. This dog is from working lines and he needs a home where can live up to his potential. He needs more time than you can give him with young children and your experience level. Please find him an adult sport home with experienced owners, who have time to get him out and exercised offleash, with obedience training and then something else where he can excel. It's not your fault that he was mistreated in his previous home by other dogs, but there are reasons why dogs gang up on another dog. He may have dog aggression as a result.

I'm not concerned about his barking at you if he is not growling or lunging unless it is aggressive barking. He is telling you something. You have to figure out what it is. If you decide to keep him please get a good private trainer who will observe him in your home and evaluate. You also must see him around other dogs. You could have a DA time bomb and not know it.
 
#12 ·
As Magwort pointed out, the 2 week shut down. Keep everyone safe. DO NOT allow the kids to climb all over him this early in game or thereafter really....Don't set him up to fail.
He could be testing his boundries with the attitude. You are getting a trainer. Good.
The SA, situational, young dog never taught to not bark when alone? Maybe can be curbed if being crated while in company of everyone as he learns the mannerisms of household and sounds and screams (re: 2 week shut down).
 
#14 · (Edited)
I don't think anybody can know the issues or temperament of this dog at this point. I'm told that it takes 3-5 days for the cortisol levels in a dog to go down after moving to a new environment--so you can't even do all that accurate a temperament test in the first few days. Then there's a honeymoon period where they may still hide their true selves because they're unsure what's what.

All this is why a two-week shut down is so important -- let the dog decompress without any expectations, and certainly without any kids interacting. Let him observe and take it all in for a while. Go slowly. Who this dog really is remains to be seen. He may be amazing (or not).

I had a personal dog who came from very similar circumstances (being starved by other dogs as a pup, not allowed to eat). He was quite literally the best dog I've ever owned -- rock-solid temperament, heart of pure gold -- eleven years with that dog wasn't nearly long enough! He was afraid of dogs for about 6 mo. though, but it was fixable with the support of an excellent trainer -- we had a good base-temperament to work with and build on, and that made all the difference. He ended up being a dog-social, jolly, happy-go-lucky soul with a great sense of humor. It took some work to bring that out though, but we succeeded because it was there for us to bring out. YMMV. We didn't have kids to worry about either.
 
#15 ·
Here are references for "The 2 Week Shut Down" .

The theory is controversial with some, but, I think you will get some good pointer's from the articles below.




Quote:
"Things NOT to do:
Here is an example
"I introduced her to 15 people"
" he was a bit leery but seems to like my other 3 dogs"
"she went everywhere with me "
All in the first few days of the new home..... (!!!)

Two weeks later we read
“I think we will have to re-home the new dog" Unquote


Decompression ? The Two Week Shutdown | Looking Glass Animal Rescue


The Two-Week Shut Down | Pibbles & More Animal Rescue


This was an older dog in this thread: Rescuing my first Dog this weekend!

Also good reading: "Rethinking Popular Early Socialization": rethinking "popular" early socialization






Moms :)




 
#16 ·
I would take things very slowly, I would keep the kids away, gentle calm pats only from the kids... any games or fun from you or your wife only, I wouldn't let the kids climb on him... all it takes is for them to hurt him somehow (even stepping on a paw wrong) and he could snap at them, any dog, even one you've had as a puppy could react the same... the kids need to learn to show him some respect and vice versa.

Time, patience, gentle nurturing and he might be an amazing dog. Good luck!
 
#18 ·
"Don't get me wrong if I see any aggression towards my kids he's gone. So far the issues have just been playful pushiness. As in no raised hair or snarling, as soon as he calms from playing the kids climb all over him just get kisses. As we have only had him for the weekend all interaction is closely supervised."
and
"I picked the dog up on Friday while my wife was out of town. She as only been around him since late Saturday night I would not say she is having challenges with him but they do need time to bond. I think it is way to early to make a determination at this point. As I said he has not been aggressive to this point. "

yikes , please , the dog has been given far too much exposure to the family , particulary the babes ---
You do not know the dog . You have said so much yourself . Many times.

did you sneak the dog into the house or was there full approval from your spouse?
 
#19 ·
So update as of today. Things are changing, first thing this morning he jumped up into the back of the SUV. This is worth noticing because the original owners said he would never jump into the truck/SUV and I have always had to lift his hind legs up. He repeated this three other times. I had my wife call him and put him in his crate this morning with me by her side and he did so without fuss. The testing was when she went to work again later in the morning. I set up a camera so I could watch the interaction and what would you know he came right over to her touched her hand when right in the crate! She was very happy.

I am taking everyone advice into consideration and I looked into the two-week shutdown. I am going to talk to the trainer about it Thursday for at our first family training. My gut feeling is it is way overkill for the correction the dog needs. One of the things I have been seeing in the posts here is NILIF, I had to look it up but felt that it was more of the appropriate route and will go off what the trainer recommends after the family visit.

As far as the kids go. I am limiting the access they have to him as of last night and setting some new firm rules and will continue teaching them to respect the dog. All family play he is separated either by dog run, crate or lead. All dog play time is with myself and one of the kids at a time. He now sits before my daughter is allowed to throw the ball and we are going to work on sitting as soon as he gives the ball.

SA update, he has bonded with me and looks for me if I leave with a little whining and waits for me at the door I left from. When we are all gone he whines and howls. When my wife lets him out of the crate he is calm. With me, he jumps and is noticeably more exited I have been ignoring the jumping and just been putting my knee up until he calms down and only give him touch and praise when all four paws are firmly planted. I am still not sure I can call it SA it is starting to seem like a behavior that was not corrected early on.

We have been keeping to his crating routine but have changed his feeding schedule to twice a day as he is skinny. I also have a vet appointment scheduled with the vet he was currently seeing so I can get any other medical background.

I do thank everyone for the comments and do hope they continue.
 
#20 ·
Well WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

If we have not chased you off yet, I think you are here.
It is nice to see someone very open minded and calm about unsolicited advice.
In our defense, we love our breed and we love our children and don't hesitate to speak up.

Good article in support of NILIF - This was published in K9 Cop magazine and was targeted for aggression which I know is not really a problem you are dealing with but it does a pretty good job I think about "using your brain instead of physical force"(I think)

Dealing with Dominance Aggression | Tarheel Canine
 
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#21 ·
Nancy, the man asked for advice, so it was not unsolicited. Read the first post, down at the bottom -- any advice appreciated. And many of us were mostly concerned about the children in the household, with a dog that was acting like he might not be quite right for the situation as he was not quite right for the last 4 situations he was in.

cibrd0wn, I don't see the 2 week shutdown as a punishment, more as space for the dog to figure out his situation and accept the new people. In fact, for most dogs in a new home, immediately smothered with hugs and kisses by their owners who are just beside themselves with their new addition, the 2 week shutdown would be more the opposite of a punishment, more of a reward.

There are some dogs that run out to meet everyone, leaping up, and soliciting pets, and praise from everyone. But a lot of dogs tend to be drawn to the one person in the gathering who gives zero acknowledgement that there is a dog present. Why is this. I grew up with my sister 2 years older than me, and every dog we met was 100% comfortable with her, wanting to be near her, and running the heck away from me. Why? Because I was there on the floor trying to engage with a dog that hadn't decided yet whether I was to be trusted -- and I was doing something that was cementing in their brains that I was not trustworthy.

Dogs seem drawn to follow natural leaders. A natural leader doesn't go all goo goo over a dog who expects to be lower on the totem pole then they are. This is untrustworthy behavior. It plants doubt in the dog's mind.

A two-week shut down, allows the dog to regroup after a major change, to get his footing in the new situation. Etc. He can watch you and decide for himself whether you are an ogre or someone he might want to follow. And most dogs are programmed to follow. Giving them this space, this time, I think makes the process a lot easier.

Since most of my dogs have come to me at birth, I haven't had much use for the shut-down. Odessa came to me just about ready to whelp, and I could not keep interaction to a minimum. I had to rush her to the ER and get a surgery, and then I had to do a lot of things, momma-dogs might not like strangers doing.

Rushie and Dubya and Kojak were all baby puppies, and you really don't need to do a shut down with baby puppies.

Dolly was one that went to a new home, and came back after being misused and seriously injured. I did not deliberately, consciously give her a two-week shut down. Actually, it was more like a month. I gave her a lot of space/time to accept her new situation. And she was a superstar for me. So it was actually the right thing to do with her.

Cujo came back to me at 18 months old. Day one I took him to meet my parents, and took him to meet a sister. Day two, I took him to pick the girls up at the horse-barn, and to meet them, and to bring them home with us. There was no shut down. It did not hurt him either, not to have the shut down. He bonded immediately to me, and loves the girls.

I guess for a dog that seems skittish, nervous, or on the edge of aggression, a two-week shutdown can be a good tool -- not a punishment, but a tool for helping the dog to relax in the new situation.

NILIF is good too, by all accounts. From what I understand, it can make you more predictable to your dog, and that will help immensely. Dogs are creatures of habit, and they feel best in situations where everyone understands rules and boundaries.
 
#22 ·
NILIF is amazing..
We had gotten our Cinder at 5 months old. She was terrified of people, any noises..
She was raised in a barn alone without any human contact for the first months of her life.
She wouldn't let us touch her, seemed like she was extremely nervy.
We did a 2 week shut down, she got used to our day to day life.. after 2 week shut down we started NILIF.
She is now obedient, well rounded, perfect dog! She is turning a year in two days and I couldn't be happier with her. No bad nerves!!
Make sure you are steady with training!!
 
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