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trying this again...

2K views 16 replies 9 participants last post by  wolfy dog 
#1 ·
So....its been a year since ive been here. I joined to try to get help for my fiance's german Shepherd and i was delt with very hostile users. Hopefully, ppl will be a little more patient and kinder this go around. This time last year, my then boyfriend had a German Shepherd named Shana. She had really bad anxiety, poorly trained, and listens when she feels like. Now we have bought a house and i now have the dog for about a month. Ive been trying to train and exercise her. Exercise has definatly helped, but it's going to be a long road. Shana is currently almost 5 years old.

A bit of history on her...

His parents teased her when leaving, so she became very fearful and destructive when left alone. I corrected this behavior by putting shoes on and picking up keys, then not leaving. I don't make a big deal out of leaving as his father did. He used to throw treats and while she ran to get the treats would run out the door. You could hear the dog screaming and barking inside the house. I tell her to stay and be a good girl and leave. She no longer cares when we leave the house and nothing has been destroyed.

She is very sensitive to changes in routine. For a long time she would only use the bathroom on a cement patio because she didn't like the feel of grass on her feet(especially if its wet grass all bets are off). I have fixed this for the most part, even though sometimes she reverts back to it briefly.

She would pull you down the street when on walks. I have a harness that when she pulls puts pressure on her chest. Between this and exercise this has gotten better.

She used to bolt out of doors. I have her sitting and staying as i walk out the door until i tell her ok. She still has issues staying sometimes and i have to repeat myself constantly for her to stay. She breaks stay on her own which im working on.

I just ordered an E-collar for her. Even though she knows commands, she sometimes just ignores me. Ive looks up alot of videos on how to use low voltage to where it just feels itchy or weird. They said this along with a gentle tug on the leash should be enough to help with focus and to build on a language for her she has lacked for so long. Her previous owner also used an e-collar to shock or warn(vibrate) her to stop misbehaving...so i'll have to retrain her there too..

I'm also working on her focus issues. She gets so hyper-focused she ignores everything i say or do to try to go after my cats. The more he growls and swats her the more hyper she reacts.

Any opinions...helpful and positive ones would be appreciated. Maybe some encouragement.I need all the help i can get.
 
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#2 ·
Have you contacted any trainers to help with any of these issues. The e-collar can be effective if used properly. With this dog and the previous owners having already used an e-collar they obviously didn't use it correctly. Too many people will buy an e-collar throw it on the dog and start shocking. Then they can't figure out why their dog has anxiety, is poorly trained and listens when it wants when not wearing the e-collar. I would be very cautious on how I used the e-collar with this dog. You could see all of the progress you have made with its anxiety, and training dissappear if you just throw it on and start shocking. I posted a link on your other post. Copy and paste that in your browser window. Follow those instructions by step. Forget what anyone else says about e-collar training use that method and you will get a dog who understands what you want and how to control the stimulus. Trying to take the easy route here will not work with this. Patience and following step by step what he lays out will.
 
#3 ·
:welcome: back! You've made such wonderful progress with Shana . For the focus, I would suggest trying clicker training. Also the sit on the dog exercise where Shana is on down/stay by your side when you are sitting - start with 5 minutes and work up to 30 minutes. For the cats, put a drag leash on Shana (an old leash with the handle cut off), that way you can stop her chasing them. I would also try the picture exercise when she is quiet - before you give her a command, picture what you want her to do in your mind - then say the command. The response time should improve and this also helps with focus.
 
#5 ·
I just ordered an E-collar for her. Even though she knows commands, she sometimes just ignores me. Ive looks up alot of videos on how to use low voltage to where it just feels itchy or weird. They said this along with a gentle tug on the leash should be enough to help with focus and to build on a language for her she has lacked for so long. Her previous owner also used an e-collar to shock or warn(vibrate) her to stop misbehaving...so i'll have to retrain her there too..

I'm also working on her focus issues. She gets so hyper-focused she ignores everything i say or do to try to go after my cats. The more he growls and swats her the more hyper she reacts.

Any opinions...helpful and positive ones would be appreciated. Maybe some encouragement.I need all the help i can get.[/QUOTE]

You cant do the type of training you described with the type of collar you bought. I don't think anyone on here who knows anything about e collars is going to be positive and encouraging to you about using the one you bought to reinforce commands the dog doesnt really know. That is just not realistic.

If you took somoe of the advice that has already been given to you I guarantee it would be helpful to your situation. What is wrong with the advice you have already gotten?
 
#7 ·
I would not use an e-collar on a dog that seems to have weak nerves.

If she knows the commands and does not do them sometimes, what do you do when she does not do a command. If you tell her to come, and she does not, what do you do?

Repeating yourself on the stay is a problem. Stop it. You need to go back and train a solid stay. You start without distractions, in a place where she will not be distracted by any outside occurrence. If you have a basement, and can do it when you are unlikely to be disturbed. Stay close, and keep it short. You need to build the time, and build the distance and the trick is to be able to praise her for staying and doing it right, rather than correct her from breaking it. After you are much, much, much better at staying without distractions, start adding them in. Start asking for stays in more interesting places. But do not expect a 60 second stay with distractions out of the box. You start over close and short, and build up the stay. Again, you want to tell your dog, "Good girl! good stay!" and not, "Eh! No, STAY!" Stay close and short enough to be within her ability to stay with the distractions. Praise her for doing what she should do, within her ability, and as she gets to be really good, short and close, increase that limit. Increase the distance a little bit. Then the time. You still want to be able to praise your dog for doing it right.

Let it take some time. She did not become the way she is overnight. Oh, you can yank or zap her into a point where she shuts down and won't move. Do you really want that? You want for her to do what you want because she wants to please you. You build her confidence and her desire to please you by providing her with plenty of opportunities to do what you want that is well within her ability, so you can praise her and boost her up, and providing few opportunities to not perform a command without being immediately helped to do it right. So if she isn't on lead, do not tell her to COME. Simple. If she is running in the yard, and you want her to come, call her and reach into your pocket, or rattle the door knob, or squeak a toy. there are many ways to get the dog to come, without saying the word. When she gets there, ALWAYS pet her head and collar, while praising her and saying "Good Come!" This is so that if you are someone unsafe, and you have to use that come to get your dog safe, you do not want a fly-by. You want to be able to pet her head and take her collar.
 
#14 ·
No one was ever consistent with her before. She was never given a command to break stay. If she doesn't follow a command its said over and over again, but she doesn't look at me nor anyone else. When she was young if she didn't follow and command she knew..she got no reward nor punishment..it was just shrugged off. Just like now she will stay at the door. My fiance lets her push him out of the way to get out the door. I will block the door until she sits.

Not only did the dog have poor training, but im pretty sure she's inbred which isn't helping matters. I have a skilled trainer as a friend with 3 border collies. She had an aussie that had the same issues. She gave it away to someone. She could no longer handle it. Dog was untrainable.
 
#9 ·
E-collar training works very well on fearful dogs. You have to get it right the first time though. No stim over what the dog can handle. It is communication.

Here's a series of videos from Larry Krohn Dog Training Bowling Green, KY, Nashville , TN, - PakMasters . It's a fearful little Cairn Terrier that he trains with an e-collar.





 
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#11 ·
David Winners. This is a lady who isn't a dog trainer though. Maybe someone familiar with the tool, and familiar with dogs of various temperaments, who has had success working with fearful dogs, can know how to read body language, subtle signs of stress, and how to provide the right level of communication to get the dog from here to there.

To have success with this tool, you have to have good timing. If you have good timing, then you probably don't really need to use the tool. With a fearful dog, you have to build trust, and you can only do that with consistency, clear communication (good timing), and patience. I'm sorry, but I think an e-collar is a bad idea or this dog/handler team.
 
#12 ·
I agree that an e-collar is a bad idea if they don't get help from a pro that is good. It's probably the worst tool she could use, aside from a bat.
 
#15 ·
I beg to differ that this person is a skilled trainer if they had to give away an "untrainable" dog they couldnt handle. Forget what's been done with the dog before. Dogs are totally willing to start over any day of the week. Now if your fiance is still being inconsistent with the dog that will hamper things. Can you get him involved with training? Can you both take her to a group class and get some skills?
 
#17 ·
I am impressed with the progress you have made already. I would not use an e-collar on a confused dog like Shana. Unless you are super experienced and successful in using them with these type of dogs.
I never used it for obedience, just for wildlife chasing to buy her freedom on the trail and beaches. Clicker training seems better suited for her but you also need to know how to do that as it is not a magic wand. I would take her to a trainer who is experience and successful with the clicker.
 
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