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Old 02-24-2014, 11:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Perspective owner in Florida

Hello GSD Forums,

This is my first forum post and I hope it will be the first of many many more. I have been browsing this forum (unregistered) for a few weeks, as my lady and I have been considering bringing a GSD into our lives. I am the more conservative person that likes to have a plan and know exactly what I am getting in to. I have found the FAQ's very beneficial and have learned a great deal.

I live in Central Florida (Lake Mary - near Orlando), in a 5000 sq. foot home. The home does not have a fenced in backyard. We have a miniature pincher named Daisy and I have loved dogs my whole life. One of our neighbors is John Morgan (famous attorney). His family has 2 very impressive GSD's. They are extremely well behaved and can frequently be seen walking with one of the Morgans around the neighborhood without a lead.

I recently saw an ad on Facebook for a litter of GSD's, which kickstarted this whole process. There are some breeders in MN that have bred two GSD's. I have been very excited about this and have done all but send them back a signed agreement. Here is the site:
"Link removed by Admin per request"

Upon searching google, I am unable to find any information about the breeders, which is a little nerve racking. I also (again, I'm weird), looked up the address listed on property appraisal and found out that the house is fairly small (appraised below $100k). Not that this would be a deal breaker, but it would add to my skepticism, as I want to do all of my due diligence to ensure that these breeders are not breeding solely for monetary gain.

On the positive, they have been extremely accommodating and friendly over text and email. Can someone that wants to do a good deed this Monday check out the website and give me their feedback on any alarms that pop up or any feedback at all, positive or negative?

One thing that caused me to make this post are:
The "Whelped Date" (I'm not keen on lingo, but that's what it says in agreement) is February 6, 2014. Through text messaging, they have told me that the pups are ready to ship or pickup after March 27, 2014. According to my calculations, that is 7 weeks. Most literature I have encountered has said that most good breeders that know what they are doing, keep the pups 8 weeks, and that this is a big deal, because a lot of important development happens during this time.

Can anybody check out the website and give me some constructive feedback. Also, does anyone know anything about the parents? I know that I want to bring a GSD into my life, but I also know, as a 15+ year commitment, it's extremely important to do it right the first time, rather than make silly mistakes and suffer with the consequences for the next 15 years. I'm not a quitter and when I commit to something, I see it through.

Sincerely,

XeroZeus

Last edited by lhczth; 07-27-2014 at 10:27 AM. Reason: removing kennel link
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Personally and this is just my honest opinion, my neck hair prickles when I see hype words like "exclusive" or "superior" or "unique" used again and again. Good breeders rarely have to even advertise litters, they have waiting lists because people want to buy one of their dogs and they don't need fancy words to sell them. Bloodlines are extremely important but seeing how I can't even find either dog in the pedigree database (unless the names are misspelled horrifically) really makes me question who these dogs are.

The pricing is pretty standard but you can get some amazing dogs for that price with all the 'bells and whistles' and have proof for generations of health tests and titles and breeders that have spent years researching and learning everything there is to know about the breed and are focused on truly upholding it.

I have to say one thing that really rankles me is how they're promoting "purity" as a selling feature. If the dogs are AKC registered then I would certainly hope they are purebred! What are both kennels doing that's so different then every other GSD breeder, reputable or not, that makes their dogs more 'pure' than others.


In the end if you chose to take one of their dogs it is entirely up to you, I'm not saying you can't get a good dog from them, who knows. But if I'm going to be paying that much I want to see actual health certificates and not just hips as that is a bare minimum and titles to ALL dogs in the pedigrees proving that they have been judged by impartial people that they are excellent representatives of the breed. A GSD is a long term commitment of 10+ years, why not stack all the odds in your favour and get the best of the best which is what it seems you are looking for.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've never heard of the breeder you linked, but if you like your neighbor's dogs, why not ask him where he got them from?
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There's definitely more experienced people here that can give you great info, so I just wanted to say 'hey' from a fellow Orlando resident!

I just got my puppy shipped from Washington, so don't be afraid to branch out and look all over for a great breeder.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am open to referrals and recommendations on excellent breeders that have breedings coming up.

I am looking for a good temperament, family type dog.

Again, my face lit up when I saw replies to this thread and I appreciate any and ALL feedback!
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Welcome from North Florida! I have a Miniature Pinscher as well. So funny that you are neighbors with John Morgan, he put an advertisement on the radio about how much he loves his pets!

I hope others will chime in about breeders for you.

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Breeder answer: "A pedigree database won't always show dogs that aren't registered with their system. A "more certified" way to check it out is to go to the AKC website and search them under their AKC numbers so you can see thru a certified website that they are registered gsd, I can give those numbers later today when I am off work"

I said
Thanks a lot. I am very excited, just need to cover everything

They said:

Yeah I understand that completely. The AKC numbers are the most important part in proving a dog is registered, there is nothing to worry about at all but do keep asking the questions you feel need answering, that is also very important
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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2 suggestions, as Lucia said, ask your neighbor who his breeder is if you like his dogs

Second suggestion, contact Betty at Little River Canine in Florida, I wouldn't turn down a dog from her, if she has nothing available she is a good source to point you to a breeder in your area.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are a lot of GSDs out there that have health and temperament problems due to indiscriminate breeding. GSDs must be bred with knowledge and care in order to preserve all the qualities we love them for.

We're not allowed to "breeder bash" here, but there is an awful lot of information missing from the site you posted. I didn't see pedigrees, titles, hip status, or any indication that the breeder knows what she's doing. If you're going to breed and sell a large, potentially aggressive breed without creating a lot of health and temperament problems, you really need to understand bloodlines and know what you're doing. Some folks think they can just buy a nice GSD male with decent bloodlines, buy a nice female with decent bloodlines, stick them together with absolutely no testing, no trialing, and no clue about how bloodlines combine, and sell puppies for $1500. Easy money, because you basically have no overhead.

These people might be very nice people, but just from the terminology they are using, it's clear that they are not involved or knowledgeable in the GSD breed. You can't just take any male and female of the same breed, stick them together, and call them "Exclusive", "Superior", etc... you have to PROVE it by showing, testing, trialing the parents. Otherwise, how do you justify your claims?

For a just a little bit more money, you can get a puppy from an ethical, knowledgeable, reputable breeder who walks the walk. Their dogs are shown, tested, titled, and proven in health and temperament before they are bred. These people are not just breeding puppies to make extra cash--in fact, even at $2000 per puppy, they may be losing money--these folks are passionate about the breed and spend a lot of time, money, and energy proving their dogs are worthy of breeding. Training, travel, shows, the best of care, not to mention veterinary bills, are expensive, but it's for the good of the breed. Those are the people I want to support, the people who care about the breed as a whole and are active in keeping it what it is supposed to be. They are not just "breeders", they are guardians and stewards of the breed. Perhaps someone can give you a referral in your area.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestep View Post
There are a lot of GSDs out there that have health and temperament problems due to indiscriminate breeding. GSDs must be bred with knowledge and care in order to preserve all the qualities we love them for.

We're not allowed to "breeder bash" here, but there is an awful lot of information missing from the site you posted. I didn't see pedigrees, titles, hip status, or any indication that the breeder knows what she's doing. If you're going to breed and sell a large, potentially aggressive breed without creating a lot of health and temperament problems, you really need to understand bloodlines and know what you're doing. Some folks think they can just buy a nice GSD male with decent bloodlines, buy a nice female with decent bloodlines, stick them together with absolutely no testing, no trialing, and no clue about how bloodlines combine, and sell puppies for $1500. Easy money, because you basically have no overhead.

These people might be very nice people, but just from the terminology they are using, it's clear that they are not involved or knowledgeable in the GSD breed. You can't just take any male and female of the same breed, stick them together, and call them "Exclusive", "Superior", etc... you have to PROVE it by showing, testing, trialing the parents. Otherwise, how do you justify your claims?

For a just a little bit more money, you can get a puppy from an ethical, knowledgeable, reputable breeder who walks the walk. Their dogs are shown, tested, titled, and proven in health and temperament before they are bred. These people are not just breeding puppies to make extra cash--in fact, even at $2000 per puppy, they may be losing money--these folks are passionate about the breed and spend a lot of time, money, and energy proving their dogs are worthy of breeding. Training, travel, shows, the best of care, not to mention veterinary bills, are expensive, but it's for the good of the breed. Those are the people I want to support, the people who care about the breed as a whole and are active in keeping it what it is supposed to be. They are not just "breeders", they are guardians and stewards of the breed. Perhaps someone can give you a referral in your area.

This is an excellent response and what I didn't know that I was looking for. I am NOT going to pinch pennies when it comes to such an important decision / acquisition. I respect that there are people that need to, but I am not in that situation. Perhaps this is one of those situations, where I need to just wait for the "right" one, rather than rush and spin the wheel. I will reach out to the source listed above and if anybody knows of any shepherds coming soon from reputable breeders, please post here or PM me. I'm on the hunt!
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