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Old 01-01-2013, 10:24 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds View Post
Welcome to the forum Terry.
Good service dogs are an asset to the breed, nice to see someone working towards that goal.
Hi,
Nice to meet you. and thank you
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #62 (permalink)
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You have to understand that EVERY breeder gets the third degree,
Not really...I would not say that is accurate at all. I can think of some "oopsies" litters that weren't "grilled", as well as some just, well, less than stellar breeders, that seem to get passes all the time

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I'm not sure that msvett was saying YOU were the one grilling her Laurie...
Nope, nobody in specific, more like a gang situation...

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I think instead of some people going out of their way to be...well, rude is the word popping into my head right now.
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I don't know maybe it just bugs me that all this is going down on a Welcome portion of the forum.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:27 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I think instead of some people going out of their way to be...well, rude is the word popping into my head right now...it might be better to send a message In private to the person. If you don't like that they have information they're not wanting to share online or otherwise, get over it. If you don't like the way they train, breed etc, get over it. It took me a long time to sign up for these forums, mostly because I was afraid to write anything without getting stones thrown at me. Can't we all just get along?

Julie


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Hi Julie,

Thank you for the words of reason. You are right, If I wanted to get that detailed I would have posted in the breeders forum. I was not expecting the spotlight interrogation over aspirations that are theory and not proven by me at this point, nor did I claim that I accomplished this goal.

I am not the only one that has attempted or is attempting this. While I am sure others have claimed to "accomplish this goal" I personally am not aware of who has actually successfully accomplished this goal nor have I seen this in any literature documenting success in closing this serious gap/separation in the GSD breed. If I am mistaken, I stand corrected however I also would like to see the proof especially when success in this area is now claimed to be achieved by someone else on this board.

Thanks for the Welcome
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:24 AM   #64 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Freestep;2668854]"Really? Why did you join the forum? You have to understand that EVERY breeder gets the third degree, especially when they are selling $30,000 "service dogs". Please don't be offended, I'm just trying to explain why your welcome wasn't as "friendly" as you may have expected. It's normal."

From what I understand from recent post this is NOT normal, especially in a Welcome thread. I also understand that other breeders have had far greater questionable activity NOT just aspirations, and they were not met with such fanfare. So, what really gives here?

"You don't seem to know any other breeders in the community (I could be wrong, but you don't seem to know anyone here). Just saying, you seem to have an ambitious goal and yet very little support. Dog breeding is at best a collective effort, so that everyone can pool their knowledge and share, for the good of the breed. At least that is the way I see it. Perhaps that is why you joined the forum?"[/QUOTE]

What I am attempting to do IS in fact a tall order and any help I can get is appreciated. However from the questions and wording of your previous posts, it seems you personally have a straight working line mindset, I may be wrong here but you seem to think that I do not like the working lines. This is not true. I admire the drive for the most part of the working lines, I also admire the stronger nerve but there are things I do not like about the working lines. I love the look of the West German show lines... the movement and expression along with some aspects of the temperament that the working line lacks. I do not want to be involved with the wimpy dog/ugly dog mudslinging that comes from both working and show camps. To be clear I am not supporting either camp fully as doing so contributes to the separation of the breed. I fully support the mindset of people that truly recognize the value of both camps and are also SADDENED by how the breed separated on BOTH ends. The rest of this conversation I will take to private message with you where it belongs at this point. Breeding can be a collective effort. It is even better working with breeders with similar goals.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:28 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Not really...I would not say that is accurate at all. I can think of some "oopsies" litters that weren't "grilled", as well as some just, well, less than stellar breeders, that seem to get passes all the time


Nope, nobody in specific, more like a gang situation...
Thank you for pointing this out.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:32 AM   #66 (permalink)
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create a new thread which is out of the welcome mat.

Do you have other staff or are you the only trainer?

If a person were to apply to get a pet pup from you , would they then get a pedigree ? Saint Francis German Shepherd Service Dogs
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:38 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Heh! Heh!
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:10 AM   #68 (permalink)
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you would have to have a degree in forensics to get any information at all - beyond a veil, beyond an iron curtain , this is a thick lead shield.

Terry why is there absolutely no information on the inter net - other than that which you provide - no comments from any owners - no mention anywhere of vom haus Mack which is the breeding arm of your operation .
No one showing , no one trialing , no customers putting their dog proudly on display .
How do you bridge gaps when you create chasms.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:45 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Why is this such an issue...if you're not purchasing a dog from him??
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:17 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFGSSD View Post

From what I understand from recent post this is NOT normal, especially in a Welcome thread. I also understand that other breeders have had far greater questionable activity NOT just aspirations, and they were not met with such fanfare. So, what really gives here?


If a breeder has any "questionable" activity, believe me, they get a good and proper spanking, and such threads usually end up closed. Everyone knows how those "I want to breed my dog" threads turn out. Stick around for a while and you'll see! It's why a lot of people lurk a long time before posting--or they rarely post at all--they are afraid. A lot of folks here will attest to that fact. You're brave to have jumped right in with both feet!

But I have to say, much depends on the attitude of the OP. If they are humble and gracious, they get a much calmer reception, even if they've made mistakes. If the OP is secretive, defensive, and hostile, people will notice and call it out. Please don't be offended, I'm not attacking you, I'm just sayin'. The dog fancy in general is full of "cliques", maybe that is why you have stayed away from it?


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However from the questions and wording of your previous posts, it seems you personally have a straight working line mindset, I may be wrong here but you seem to think that I do not like the working lines. This is not true. I admire the drive for the most part of the working lines, I also admire the stronger nerve but there are things I do not like about the working lines.


Fair enough--each line has its strengths and weaknesses, I don't care which bloodline my next dog comes from, as long as it is the right dog. What is it about working lines you don't like? Personally, I don't like extreme prey drive, low thresholds, and insane activity levels of some working lines, the high-scoring "podium" dogs bred for sport (which does not encompass all working lines). To be honest, I've never owned a showline dog and I don't have much experience with them--but I don't dislike them. I personally think it's a shame that there is such a deep split between working and show. IMO there should be ONE GSD that has the best of both worlds--I suspect you agree--but the problem is, how do we get there? Some folks think the best way is to breed only V-rated working dogs. Others think that we need to breed only good-working show dogs. Still others think the whole system needs to change in order to reward only the RIGHT dogs, not just the "prettiest" or the highest scoring extremes. Should we cross the lines? That is the question; some breeders are doing it in a very thoughtful way and have had some success with it. Far too many have done it without any long-term plan or goal and so no lasting impact is made (for better or worse).

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I love the look of the West German show lines... the movement and expression along with some aspects of the temperament that the working line lacks.


What aspects of temperament does the show line have that the working line lacks? I know you wanted to take this to PM, but public discussion helps everyone learn. There are a lot of newbies and other interested folk here researching the breed.
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