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Old 11-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Only special dogs can do live bites. Most dogs do not have what it takes to do that in real life situations. Most will turn and run.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:57 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Whether the dog will protect or not when someone comes to the door has to do more with it's core temperament than with training. There are plenty of working dogs who would turn and run, and plenty of mutts from the pound who would fight to the death. Training doesn't change temperament. A protective dog is a protective dog regardless of training. If the dog doesn't have it in him, no amount of training will put it there. The dog can be taught to fake it, but that training may not hold up when actually put to the test. Likewise, if he does have it in him, nothing is going to take it out of him. A protective dog trained in SchH is still going to be protective despite participating in a sleeve focused sport.

One absolutely cannot look at sport results and SchH titles to know if a dog will protect for real or not. One has to look at the dog. Best way to know if the dog really will hold up for real is to do the training, because then you're testing the dog as much as possible and can be more sure of your expectations. And of course the training teaches the dog how to remain clear and responsive to the handler, and teaches the handler how to understand what will trigger the dog, how the dog will react and how to remain in control... some very important things.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:01 PM   #43 (permalink)
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They are taught to attack a sleeve, not a person, right?
Depends on how it's trained, and also on the temperament and drives of the dog. SchH is supposed to be about protection, and testing the traits for that. Often times it no longer is. There are those who still train it as the dog is fighting the person and the sleeve is nothing more than a necessary piece of safety equipment, one which the dog views as an extension of the person. And then there are those that teach it as nothing but a big game of tug with the sleeve. Again, can't draw conclusions based just on the titles without knowing the dog and how it was trained. The first way is a pretty decent gage of the dogs ability to protect for real. The second way obviously is not.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I see a good dog, but again for 2 years old he's probably way farther behind than where a dog should be if it were purchased as a puppy by someone that knew what they were doing...or someone that didn't know what they were doing but joined a club and trained their dog consistently for the next 2 years. I say this because the trainer is clearly splitting his time between a bunch of dogs, where is a single handler would just have one dog to train (some of the more seasoned ones can do more than that).

Price really doesn't matter. However much OP paid I'm sure they're happy with the deal. For most of us, training is a way of life and we enjoy the process rather than the end result. We love training our dogs and we love getting through issues with them ourselves rather than having someone else fix a problem for us. A trained dog isn't really something we're interested in.

I find this breeder/trainer interesting though. I'd never trust someone an ocean away to "test" a dog for me and then pick one out of the ones that they have raised. First of all...they're biased, second of all...there is absolutely no risk if you mess up. To me it looks like a quick buck made. But to each his own.

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Old 11-15-2012, 03:11 PM   #45 (permalink)
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One absolutely cannot look at sport results and SchH titles to know if a dog will protect for real or not. One has to look at the dog. Best way to know if the dog really will hold up for real is to do the training, because then you're testing the dog as much as possible and can be more sure of your expectations. And of course the training teaches the dog how to remain clear and responsive to the handler, and teaches the handler how to understand what will trigger the dog, how the dog will react and how to remain in control... some very important things.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I would bet it is going to cost you a couple thousand more to train him in personal protection. I read a previous post on here about "would your dog protect you" and there were many expert handlers with awesome dogs that said their dog wouldn't attack someone without a sleeve on because they had not been trained to.

Is it correct to assume that the average dog that undergoes shtz training will not attack an intruder that comes in the door with a treat? They are taught to attack a sleeve, not a person, right?
There are two parts to the question "what will the dog do in real life situation". The first part is the training, the second is genetics.

I think the point coming across is that unless the dog has been specifically trained for real life situations, only genetics will determine what the dog will do... You might say a schutzhund dog is just as likely to stop an intruder as a non trained dog but to that I might say - some (good) training is better than no training - so while you can't guarantee a schutzhund dog will protect you any more than you can guarantee a pet to protect you - there is something to be said of a dog that gets to dominate and win against another human being week in and week out... just my opinion.

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Old 11-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Whether the dog will protect or not when someone comes to the door has to do more with it's core temperament than with training. There are plenty of working dogs who would turn and run, and plenty of mutts from the pound who would fight to the death. Training doesn't change temperament. A protective dog is a protective dog regardless of training. If the dog doesn't have it in him, no amount of training will put it there.
THIS!!!!

My last dog was a mutt (Shep / Lab / Plott Hound were the top 3 of about 400 others). I didn't do any formal protection training with her at all. She was a companion dog. The top of her head came to my waist (she was all legs) and she weighed 85 pounds. Abby was black and brown brindle - very hard to see at night!

TWICE she protected me.

The first time I was walking her I was almost mugged. It was about 8 p.m. and this guy came up behind me and was just about to ... I'm not sure - put his arm around me neck, whatever, and Abby flipped right around jumped up, had her paws on his shoulders and sent him flying.

The second time we were walking again, and a guy jumped out of the bushes right in front of me and before I had a chance to do anything, she did the same thing - jumped up, paws on his shoulders and the guy went behind over tea kettle into the river.

The growling / snarling / barking that came out of her shocked the heck out of me. The incidents were about 2 years apart.

Those are the ONLY times I had ever seen any aggression come out of her. It certainly made me see her in a whole new light let me tell you, especially after the first time.

Would Kyleigh protect me? Not a clue. I'm sure we'd all like to think our dogs will ... but unless you've actually witnessed it, I don't think we can make that guess! And I wouldn't want to make the wrong guess in a bad situation while I'm stuck against a wall and my dog's running back home!
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:13 PM   #48 (permalink)
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My first GSD did this too. Sweetest dog in the wold until you screwed with her people. She was an AKC obedience dog, no protection training at all.

I think Havoc would do this too. Kayos maybe- if really pushed. Lydi, the pup would run.

No amount of training will change real protection instincts.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:13 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I think if ou are willing to pay big bucks for an imported dog, I would invest a few more and go to see the dog i person and decide then and there. If it isn't a good deal, you have at least had a European trip out of it.
I hope you will enjoy your new dog and that you will continue his training so he won't get confuse on who he can bite and in which situation.
I think it is very risky to not finish a dog that has been allowed to bite another person, even though it was just the sleeve.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #50 (permalink)
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to the OP what does it matter what people think - you have bought the dog, you will get what you will get regardless.

if you waneted opinions about a PPD prospect perhaps you could have posted the vids etc BEFORE you bought the dog...just saying????
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