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My new dog is on his way from Germany!

19K views 178 replies 51 participants last post by  JeanKBBMMMAAN 
#1 ·
I posted on here a couple weeks ago about wanting to find a dog thoroughly trained in obedience and protection and after 2 weeks of waiting for the breeders to "test" the dog into what I wanted we have found the ONE and he is on his way.

Shipping all the way from Germany to Texas here is Dino.









And this is his breeding..

The Father is : Arras vom Schwartenzwinger Schutzhund 3 , IPO 3 FH, FCI, 2 times DJJM , German BSP !!!!!!

The Mother is: Echidna vom Halleys schen komet Schutzhund 3 KKL 1 SG


Any insight or information more into my dog for those of you who are "educated" would be great! I know NOTHING about breeding and am curious about his bloodlines. Also thoughts on the video would be great too!

THank you!!!
 
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#35 · (Edited)
The purchase price is not relevant at this point. The dog has already been purchased and the OP is excited about bring home their new family member. I think it is a very nice dog that is showing some nice potential. I do want to encourage the owner to find a way to keep the dog in training so that he can develop into the finished dog that they are wanting.
 
#36 ·
If you are mostly looking for a family dog that will alert bark and will act as a deterrent, with some basic obedience, then Dino sounds like a good fit for you. As long as you understand that this is NOT a finished protection dog, and the training shown in the videos is foundation work in prey drive with no real pressure.

It might be a fun and rewarding thing for you to take him to an IPO/Schutzhund club and finish him yourself (big time commitment though). You will learn a lot and really deepen your connection and bond to him.
 
#37 ·
I am confused about one thing...you said if he turns out to be "not what you thought" you will just return him.

How can you just return a dog to Germany? If I were a breeder selling a dog that already had its hips OFA certified and the dog had no health or temperament problems, I would not accept "refunds".

If the dog is green as the experienced people are saying, but you think he was completely trained from these videos, what happens when you get him and he requires more training in order to be the "perfect family dog".

Will a breeder really allow you to just send him back because you didn't have enough previous experience to realize what you were getting into?

This is not meant to put you down, I am inexperienced as well. I am just wondering how the breeders handle a situation like this because I can completely see families importing GSDs then realizing they are too much to handle and wanting their money back.
 
#38 ·
From what I have heard and from what I have been told by German breeders, you buy it and that's it. I never heard of refunds or anyone taking a dog back. Most of the time, when you buy from Germany or Czech Republic or wherever, you buy what you buy. That's it. Many do not give guarantees either.

It will run 700$-1k to send it back - I will be surprised if they are willing to pick up that cost! ;)
 
#40 ·
I would bet it is going to cost you a couple thousand more to train him in personal protection. I read a previous post on here about "would your dog protect you" and there were many expert handlers with awesome dogs that said their dog wouldn't attack someone without a sleeve on because they had not been trained to.

Is it correct to assume that the average dog that undergoes shtz training will not attack an intruder that comes in the door with a treat? They are taught to attack a sleeve, not a person, right?
 
#43 ·
They are taught to attack a sleeve, not a person, right?
Depends on how it's trained, and also on the temperament and drives of the dog. SchH is supposed to be about protection, and testing the traits for that. Often times it no longer is. There are those who still train it as the dog is fighting the person and the sleeve is nothing more than a necessary piece of safety equipment, one which the dog views as an extension of the person. And then there are those that teach it as nothing but a big game of tug with the sleeve. Again, can't draw conclusions based just on the titles without knowing the dog and how it was trained. The first way is a pretty decent gage of the dogs ability to protect for real. The second way obviously is not.
 
#42 ·
Whether the dog will protect or not when someone comes to the door has to do more with it's core temperament than with training. There are plenty of working dogs who would turn and run, and plenty of mutts from the pound who would fight to the death. Training doesn't change temperament. A protective dog is a protective dog regardless of training. If the dog doesn't have it in him, no amount of training will put it there. The dog can be taught to fake it, but that training may not hold up when actually put to the test. Likewise, if he does have it in him, nothing is going to take it out of him. A protective dog trained in SchH is still going to be protective despite participating in a sleeve focused sport.

One absolutely cannot look at sport results and SchH titles to know if a dog will protect for real or not. One has to look at the dog. Best way to know if the dog really will hold up for real is to do the training, because then you're testing the dog as much as possible and can be more sure of your expectations. And of course the training teaches the dog how to remain clear and responsive to the handler, and teaches the handler how to understand what will trigger the dog, how the dog will react and how to remain in control... some very important things.
 
#45 ·
One absolutely cannot look at sport results and SchH titles to know if a dog will protect for real or not. One has to look at the dog. Best way to know if the dog really will hold up for real is to do the training, because then you're testing the dog as much as possible and can be more sure of your expectations. And of course the training teaches the dog how to remain clear and responsive to the handler, and teaches the handler how to understand what will trigger the dog, how the dog will react and how to remain in control... some very important things.
Best post ever..
 
#44 · (Edited)
I see a good dog, but again for 2 years old he's probably way farther behind than where a dog should be if it were purchased as a puppy by someone that knew what they were doing...or someone that didn't know what they were doing but joined a club and trained their dog consistently for the next 2 years. I say this because the trainer is clearly splitting his time between a bunch of dogs, where is a single handler would just have one dog to train (some of the more seasoned ones can do more than that).

Price really doesn't matter. However much OP paid I'm sure they're happy with the deal. For most of us, training is a way of life and we enjoy the process rather than the end result. We love training our dogs and we love getting through issues with them ourselves rather than having someone else fix a problem for us. A trained dog isn't really something we're interested in.

I find this breeder/trainer interesting though. I'd never trust someone an ocean away to "test" a dog for me and then pick one out of the ones that they have raised. First of all...they're biased, second of all...there is absolutely no risk if you mess up. To me it looks like a quick buck made. But to each his own.
 
#48 ·
My first GSD did this too. Sweetest dog in the wold until you screwed with her people. She was an AKC obedience dog, no protection training at all.

I think Havoc would do this too. Kayos maybe- if really pushed. Lydi, the pup would run.

No amount of training will change real protection instincts.
 
#49 ·
I think if ou are willing to pay big bucks for an imported dog, I would invest a few more and go to see the dog i person and decide then and there. If it isn't a good deal, you have at least had a European trip out of it.
I hope you will enjoy your new dog and that you will continue his training so he won't get confuse on who he can bite and in which situation.
I think it is very risky to not finish a dog that has been allowed to bite another person, even though it was just the sleeve.
 
#50 ·
to the OP what does it matter what people think - you have bought the dog, you will get what you will get regardless.

if you waneted opinions about a PPD prospect perhaps you could have posted the vids etc BEFORE you bought the dog...just saying????
 
#53 ·
Wow. This thread filled up quick!

I can't respond to each of you but one post does stick out in my head... Someone said that I should have bought a dog from someone who knew what they were doing? How do you know who I bought the dog from and what kind of training/handling it received and if the dog had one handler or many?

Anyways thanks for the thoughts and advice I know that people are very passionate about there animals and say what they believe to be right. I feel like with all of our research and the references we were given he is going to fit just right into our home. We were looking for a family dog that had sharp obedience skills but yet the necessary skill to protect if needed.

Please remember that I am new to this forum and to GSD's and your words of advice will best be heeded if conveyed in a kind respectful manner. If you love these animals then you should want to help in anyway that you can not condemn a new owner for trying to learn. Dino will be here Tuesday and I look forward to hearing and learning as much as I can about this breed from everyone on here! :)
 
#54 ·
I can't respond to each of you but one post does stick out in my head... Someone said that I should have bought a dog from someone who knew what they were doing? How do you know who I bought the dog from and what kind of training/handling it received and if the dog had one handler or many?
Well, I wouldn't say that the person you bought the dog from doesn't know what they are doing, in fact, they did not blind you. Personally, I think they should you exactly what the dog is and didn't try to hide what he isn't.
They showed you a dog that has a foundation in protection and obedience but is not a finished dog.

Everyone has said to get a trainer and keep working with him. I posted a link with the clubs. Maybe there is one close to you where you can continue to work him.
 
#55 ·
Yes it has been discussed and we do plan on taking him to further his training! I am located in North DFW so I will have to see what is available around me to take him to.

BTW do you show? What zone? We travel to probably 1-2 shows a month and are in zone 7. I think I saw on your profile that you are in CA so you are in a totally different zone. I am referring to the Hunter Jumper circuit.
 
#59 · (Edited)
He doesn't have a very filled out male appearance to me, and his behavior and training (or lack thereof) makes him appear younger (to me). Usually, an experienced trainer would have a dog much further along than that by 2 from what I have seen.

When we were puppy shopping, I (well, DH too) fell in love with a young male from excellent breeding that was about the level of training shown in those videos. he was a newly turned 2 and they intended to keep him for breeding stock, placed him in a foster home, he didn't ever really get worked outside the basics, then lived the kennel/pet life for awhile with no real training once they decided he wasn't breeding material and put him up for sale. He had a little more defense drive than your "Dino," but still mostly working in prey like Dino, and what I would consider basic obedience as shown in the videos you posted. He was priced a little high for his level of training, but not an unfair price by any means @ 2,500. They did eventually offer him to us for 2K, but we ended up passing for other reasons, some related to the dog and others not. We ended up not getting one at all to be fair, and if we had it would've been him. But I just hope you didn't get taken for a ride with this one, because the one we were looking at was very, very similar and was being sold as green and basic OB trained only by an honest breeder.
 
#60 · (Edited)
is your sale set in stone? for a dog that is 2 id personally want to see a much more serious dog but thats just me. But again if that is just the handler working the dog we have no idea how the dog will act??? So It sucks if it is just a handler working the dog. But if it is a decoy working the dog then i would way want a much more serious response for a pp prospect at that age. Again this is just for me.

I like his response for a 9 or 10 month old. If he is for IpO then i am sure you are going to be happy if you find a good club.
 
#61 ·
I think OB is least of your concern I have an import also regardless you are going to have to retrain the ob anyways. The language is not the same your dog is not going to understand you. You will have to train the ob again. I would not look for a dog with advanced op. You retrain it all over again when you get the dog your own way. A started dog thats had a good foundation in bite work is very good though if they did it properly.
 
#63 ·
I think OB is least of your concern I have an import also regardless you are going to have to retrain the ob anyways. The language is not the same your dog is not going to understand you. You will have to train the ob again. I would not look for a dog with advanced op. You retrain it all over again when you get the dog your own way. A started dog thats had a good foundation in bite work is very good though if they did it properly.
KLZ - First, Congrats on your new dog. (You've gotten more criticism here than congrats...:D) Second, even the most knowledgable GSD people can't see the whole picture from a few 30-second video snippets. Dino's 2, but they may have started his training later, which is why he "looks" younger.

What you paid for him is your business. Out here, a dog strong in OB STARTS @ 3K. A fully-trained PPD STARTS @ over 3 times that amount.

I wouldn't be concerned over any "language barrier". He probably was also trained with hand signals & will "learn English" as you repeat verbal commands along with the hand signals. They may have already given you the German words to use on him.

Enjoy your new addition. And come back with progress reports & pictures!
 
#62 ·
OB would be THE most important thing aside from seeing a confident dog. If the dog is confident and obedient, the rest will fall naturally.
 
#64 ·
Wow, this thread has been oddly negative. Congrats on your new dog! I am sure that you are really excited and looking forward to bringing him home on Tuesday. I, for one, hope you continue posting updates here! Regardless of price or pedigree, we are talking about a living being that requires love, care and attention above all else. It sounds like he will receive that with your family. And, with that foundation, he will give that back and more!
 
#67 ·
THANK YOU!!!

I cannot for the life of me understand where all this negativity is coming from. I could understand if I was a BYB and bragging about that or had some pretty sickly dogs I was showing off but I guess I don't get what all the criticism is about this little guy. On my original thread about 2 weeks ago I did post that I wanted a fully trained dog in obedience and protection but after talking with the breeder and discussing my routine and what I needed the dog here for I think he chose what BEST suits me. And that is a calm relaxed dog that is sharp in his obedience and will be a family protector. FTW I have never had a very nicely trained dog so I liked what I saw in the video and what his references told me. I also did have a large budget but that isn't a concern of anyones.. I was posting so that people could help and knew my price range (it always helps to known a price range when purchasing something) and help me. But I guess it has turned into a "I hope you didn't pay THAT much for THAT dog".


As for the pedigree I am clueless as to GSD lines and yes I have already purchased this dog but was also wanting some insight to if anyone knew about his bloodlines. He has been fully vetted and x rayed with excellent hip status so I know there is not a concern for me there.

If anyone know's anything about his bloodlines I would love to hear! :D:D
 
#65 ·
I agree. I think this board has been pretty rough on you. I think Dino is a nice looking dog and has a nice foundation on him. He just needs to have his training continued. By the way. It takes years to have an accomplished and fully polished dog. Your new dog is only 2. Many people do not even begin serious training until after a dog is at least a year or older. I hope you stick around and keep us updated on Dino when he arrives and how his training goes.
 
#70 ·
i will leave this for the ped nerds;

And this is his breeding..

The Father is : Arras vom Schwartenzwinger Schutzhund 3 , IPO 3 FH, FCI, 2 times DJJM , German BSP !!!!!!

The Mother is: Echidna vom Halleys schen komet Schutzhund 3 KKL 1 SG


to the OP i know you asked about pedigrees but you mentioned your other needs and i think people are just trying to point out that any dog at that age/stage is little or no indication as to whether it will or won't be a family protector as you require. your family needs protecting in what context? if your needs are real you best welcome a discussion before you have to find out by doing or getting done.
 
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