My new dog is on his way from Germany! - Page 2

Capone22 · 11-15-2012, 09:26 AM

Just out of newbie curiosity- is it normal for the "helper" to be the trainer also? Especially if testing "courage?" I am kind of confused. I always felt like the handler and dog were a team.

**Chris Wild** · 11-15-2012, 09:34 AM

Handler and dog should be a team, yes. Some handlers also do their own helperwork out of necessity and just plain lack of other helpers. But it is far from ideal. A dog cannot work seriously on his own handler, nor should the handler be putting the sort of pressure on his own dog that would tap into that serious side. The handler can play a game with his own dog, which is all that is happening in this video.

One absolutely cannot test a dog's strength, courage, protective instinct or willingness and ability to engage for real rather than play with a sleeve when it's the handler working his own dog.

Despite the titles of the videos there is no testing of courage or stick stress actually going on here, it's all play. The one time when the handler is away from the sleeve flicking the whip at the dog, you can see the stress and confusion in the dog because he doesn't understand what is going on or how to respond.

Capone22 · 11-15-2012, 09:36 AM

Thank you. That is what I was thinking.

Capone22 · 11-15-2012, 09:42 AM

OP- I am not sure what you are expecting when the dog gets there. But I hope you can return the dog and get your money back if he is not what your hoping for. I am new here, but he really looks like he still needs A LOT of work. Maybe you changed your mind, and are willing to train with your dog, which would be fantastic. But if not, I am afraid you are going to be really disappointed when he arrives.

Also, I would post a thread on what you should do or don't do when he arrives. For example, is a 2 week shut down appropriate? I can't remember if you posted his age. My GSD really has no interest in anyone except me, her handler. Unless they are kids, if someone comes to pet her she is pretty much neutral. She doesn't care either way. and if they ask her to sit, she looks at me and waits for me to tell her what to do. She won't listen to them. Even for a treat. This is not something I trained, it just is how she is naturally. I just don't see this dog arriving and being ready to listen to you give him commands. I hope you have a trainer/club set up to work with.

Mrs.K · 11-15-2012, 10:07 AM

KLZ, I know you don't want to hear all these things. Especially when you just bought a new dog.

I am from Germany. I come from a family of successful breeders so I grew up with the breeding, titling and selling business in Germany.

I don't think these people have been dishonest. They showed you exactly what this dog is. GREEN with some foundation work.

To be absolutely honest, I don't understand why it had to be imported from Germany. You have some really good breeders and trainers in Texas. I've been to the Schutzhund Club in Austin and you would have been better off in going there, talk to the helper and the people (if you are close) and see if they can hook you up.
The west German working line dogs in the US come from the best possible stock you could have bought in Germany.
The Americans have done a great job in importing the creme de la creme out of Germany, they have done their homework. Many breeders, like Chris Wild, know what they are doing. They have produced excellent dogs that are just as good, sometimes even better, than the ones you get out of Germany. If you want a real dog, you can get that dog in the US and you can look at that dog yourself and see it with your own eyes. The only thing you can't say is that you bought that dog in Germany.
Sadly, in your case, it seems to be that one important thing. That you have imported that dog.

Since you bought that dog, and you were able to afford up to 12k for it, I doubt you'll have any issue to join a club, put in the time it needs to keep training and turn the dog into the dog you want him to be.

Here is the South Central Region. Go to clubs and you will find a list of Clubs in Texas.
www.southcentralregion.com

IF you are anywhere near Austin, I can only recommend the Austin Schutzhund Club. It is a great bunch of people and the helper says it the way it is. He knows what he's doing and will not BS you.

Again, I know that these are probably not the things you want to hear. Your "Bueller Bueller Bueller" reaction made that very clear, but it needs to be said.

qbchottu · 11-15-2012, 10:10 AM

MrsK is right. Continue to train with the dog. He is not finished by any means and it is far too premature to call him a personal protection dog.

robk · 11-15-2012, 10:31 AM

I think he is a nice looking dog with good potential. Keep up with his training when he gets here and you will have a very nice protection dog.

KLZ86 · 11-15-2012, 11:50 AM

To answer everyone's questions I bought Dino as a personal family dog, we are not looking to do any competitions or tests. I show horses competitively and I would not have time to do that with Dino. I do have other videos of his obedience of him sitting/staying and laying/staying while the trainer walks away and he does not move until she calls him (off leash). It took this breeder 2 weeks to get back to me with a dog that they thought would fit the mold. I was told that his commands are sharp and on key and he is good with children and small dogs. Put through various tests to make sure of it and taken in public around large groups of people. I also called many of his references.

Dino just turned 2 in November. I told ____ exactly what I was looking for over the phone and Dino is what he came up with over testing 6 different dogs to make sure he was the right fit. If I do have an issue with the dog I will send him back but he has a lot of positive feedback and I don't think I will be disappointed. Remember I am look for a family dog that will be on guard if only we are in danger and listens well. Something that my 2 chihuahuas are not capable of doing.

EDIT: my "bueller bueller bueller" comment was not meant to be rude, I was referencing the movie because no one had commented on my thread.

One more thing. I called a lot of US breeders before I called the one in Germany and I was not comfortable with any of them nor did they seem okay with the fact that I had a child and other dogs. Their starting price for the GSD was about 10K and that is what my friend here in TX who also has a GSD ended up paying for his so I figured that was about the standard rate for what I was looking for. Give me a second and I will upload some of his obedience training.

KLZ86 · 11-15-2012, 12:17 PM

seitz - YouTube

platz - YouTube

qbchottu · 11-15-2012, 12:18 PM

You have already made the decision so you are less likely to be receptive to our advice and criticism. You have decided that this is the right way to go with little experience or background in this field. But you have several people experienced in this field telling you what they clearly see. It's fine. This type of thing happens all the time. The truth is you can find a perfectly nice PP dog with the level of training that dog has here in the US for less than 10k. I'm sure he is a very nice dog, but nowhere near what you think he is at this stage.

You will need to attend training and put work into this dog. You cannot expect him to come off the plane ready to protect and guard your family like a true PP dog. That is the truth. Regardless of whether you wish to trial or show him, you will need to put training and work into him. That's the plain fact.

11-15-2012, 09:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,033	Handler and dog should be a team, yes. Some handlers also do their own helperwork out of necessity and just plain lack of other helpers. But it is far from ideal. A dog cannot work seriously on his own handler, nor should the handler be putting the sort of pressure on his own dog that would tap into that serious side. The handler can play a game with his own dog, which is all that is happening in this video. One absolutely cannot test a dog's strength, courage, protective instinct or willingness and ability to engage for real rather than play with a sleeve when it's the handler working his own dog. Despite the titles of the videos there is no testing of courage or stick stress actually going on here, it's all play. The one time when the handler is away from the sleeve flicking the whip at the dog, you can see the stress and confusion in the dog because he doesn't understand what is going on or how to respond. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels*

11-15-2012, 10:31 AM	#17 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,525	I think he is a nice looking dog with good potential. Keep up with his training when he gets here and you will have a very nice protection dog. __________________ Honor Von Kaltwasser BH aka "Ruger" http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...von-Kaltwasser

11-15-2012, 11:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
KLZ86 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 27	To answer everyone's questions I bought Dino as a personal family dog, we are not looking to do any competitions or tests. I show horses competitively and I would not have time to do that with Dino. I do have other videos of his obedience of him sitting/staying and laying/staying while the trainer walks away and he does not move until she calls him (off leash). It took this breeder 2 weeks to get back to me with a dog that they thought would fit the mold. I was told that his commands are sharp and on key and he is good with children and small dogs. Put through various tests to make sure of it and taken in public around large groups of people. I also called many of his references. Dino just turned 2 in November. I told ____ exactly what I was looking for over the phone and Dino is what he came up with over testing 6 different dogs to make sure he was the right fit. If I do have an issue with the dog I will send him back but he has a lot of positive feedback and I don't think I will be disappointed. Remember I am look for a family dog that will be on guard if only we are in danger and listens well. Something that my 2 chihuahuas are not capable of doing. EDIT: my "bueller bueller bueller" comment was not meant to be rude, I was referencing the movie because no one had commented on my thread. One more thing. I called a lot of US breeders before I called the one in Germany and I was not comfortable with any of them nor did they seem okay with the fact that I had a child and other dogs. Their starting price for the GSD was about 10K and that is what my friend here in TX who also has a GSD ended up paying for his so I figured that was about the standard rate for what I was looking for. Give me a second and I will upload some of his obedience training. Last edited by KLZ86; 11-15-2012 at 11:55 AM.

11-15-2012, 09:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 929	Just out of newbie curiosity- is it normal for the "helper" to be the trainer also? Especially if testing "courage?" I am kind of confused. I always felt like the handler and dog were a team.

11-15-2012, 09:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 929	Thank you. That is what I was thinking.

11-15-2012, 09:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 929	OP- I am not sure what you are expecting when the dog gets there. But I hope you can return the dog and get your money back if he is not what your hoping for. I am new here, but he really looks like he still needs A LOT of work. Maybe you changed your mind, and are willing to train with your dog, which would be fantastic. But if not, I am afraid you are going to be really disappointed when he arrives. Also, I would post a thread on what you should do or don't do when he arrives. For example, is a 2 week shut down appropriate? I can't remember if you posted his age. My GSD really has no interest in anyone except me, her handler. Unless they are kids, if someone comes to pet her she is pretty much neutral. She doesn't care either way. and if they ask her to sit, she looks at me and waits for me to tell her what to do. She won't listen to them. Even for a treat. This is not something I trained, it just is how she is naturally. I just don't see this dog arriving and being ready to listen to you give him commands. I hope you have a trainer/club set up to work with.

11-15-2012, 10:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
Mrs.K Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,461	KLZ, I know you don't want to hear all these things. Especially when you just bought a new dog. I am from Germany. I come from a family of successful breeders so I grew up with the breeding, titling and selling business in Germany. I don't think these people have been dishonest. They showed you exactly what this dog is. GREEN with some foundation work. To be absolutely honest, I don't understand why it had to be imported from Germany. You have some really good breeders and trainers in Texas. I've been to the Schutzhund Club in Austin and you would have been better off in going there, talk to the helper and the people (if you are close) and see if they can hook you up. The west German working line dogs in the US come from the best possible stock you could have bought in Germany. The Americans have done a great job in importing the creme de la creme out of Germany, they have done their homework. Many breeders, like Chris Wild, know what they are doing. They have produced excellent dogs that are just as good, sometimes even better, than the ones you get out of Germany. If you want a real dog, you can get that dog in the US and you can look at that dog yourself and see it with your own eyes. The only thing you can't say is that you bought that dog in Germany. Sadly, in your case, it seems to be that one important thing. That you have imported that dog. Since you bought that dog, and you were able to afford up to 12k for it, I doubt you'll have any issue to join a club, put in the time it needs to keep training and turn the dog into the dog you want him to be. Here is the South Central Region. Go to clubs and you will find a list of Clubs in Texas. www.southcentralregion.com IF you are anywhere near Austin, I can only recommend the Austin Schutzhund Club. It is a great bunch of people and the helper says it the way it is. He knows what he's doing and will not BS you. Again, I know that these are probably not the things you want to hear. Your "Bueller Bueller Bueller" reaction made that very clear, but it needs to be said.

11-15-2012, 10:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
qbchottu Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,712	MrsK is right. Continue to train with the dog. He is not finished by any means and it is far too premature to call him a personal protection dog.

11-15-2012, 12:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
qbchottu Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,712	You have already made the decision so you are less likely to be receptive to our advice and criticism. You have decided that this is the right way to go with little experience or background in this field. But you have several people experienced in this field telling you what they clearly see. It's fine. This type of thing happens all the time. The truth is you can find a perfectly nice PP dog with the level of training that dog has here in the US for less than 10k. I'm sure he is a very nice dog, but nowhere near what you think he is at this stage. You will need to attend training and put work into this dog. You cannot expect him to come off the plane ready to protect and guard your family like a true PP dog. That is the truth. Regardless of whether you wish to trial or show him, you will need to put training and work into him. That's the plain fact.

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