I feel like a failure. Five and a half months ago I got a cute little fluffball and he followed me everywhere. Potty trained now, also in our second puppy course, he has regressed from my puppy who listened to everything to bot having any recall or anything. I tried weaning him off the treats and ball when training and I've had nothing but failure. He won't even make eye contact when training. Help. The "trainer" in the class only has me and one other GSD and he does pretty well in class with treats but at home I'm awful at being able to help him listen. Is he just in his butthole stage or am I doing something completely wrong? Last month he had down:
Sit, down, stay, wait, shake, come, bring it, drop it, up, army crawl, leave it, high five.
Now he's got ... Sit.
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong here. I tried a prong collar and he responds ok to that in public but not at home. I am mystified. :banghead:
Thus the reason in referring to her as the "trainer" rather than the trainer in a previous comment. Ugggggh. He's so smart. I think I need to just keep plugging along. I just don't want to screw up, you know?
And yes, I agree. We are in the adult 2 class after the puppy kindergarten class because she said she thought I was training him above where he should have been and that he'd flourish in the adult class. But she put us in with a wild GSD puppy who doesn't even know how to sit because she thought it'd be "cute" for Yogi to have a girlfriend. Really? :/ I need a new trainer. I just called her and she said he's out of control with me because he's not fixed. Whaaaa?!!
I have had a shepherd who didn't want treats too, at least for a while. I learned to teach her using praise alone. No treats whatsoever. But she got that. If the tug is what your dogs will give his canines for, than use his tug. Yes you can keep a tug toy in your jacket pocket.
Use what works for now. But add to it the praise words, Good Sit, Good boy! Pretty soon you can phase out that tug, by giving it to him for only the best line of commands complied with.
Ive been proofing it lately with people trying to steal him off me and throwing his favorite toys at him. If there were more people here could do one of a decoy trying to agitate him off, but throwing stuff at him should be impressive enough.
The trainer is not too skilled. Use the class time to control your dog around other dogs, and let the baloney roll off of you. Maybe the dog is just having a few bad days.
Actually, go in there with the tug toy, and show her how the dog is much better, and whip out the tug and tell the dog to SIT! Down! Good boy and let him tug away, hopefully vocalizing with some good growls. Ok, Enough or Drop It, and tape her horrified expression for all of us.
LOL yes. There was another female shepherd in Venus' rally & CGC class, a little older and had been one class ahead of us. The trainer gave them a tug to work with in the class. Seeing as she was a sensible trainer...
You can make tugs too in any size you want. My daughter makes them for our dogs out of fleece - 3 strips about and inch wide braided together with knots on either ends. It's springy so that's extra rewarding. Not expensive either so if he eats it you're not out $10 for a boodah tug. We buy the fleece off the close out ugly color table at walmarts fabric dept. Costs about $5 to make a bunch of them.
Do you have other commands that your pup has to follow before he gets his favorite things? Sometimes just focusing on those will get their puppy brains back on track, without any conflict either since they really want what's coming, and won't blow you off because then they're blowing off their mighty reward. Like having to "Wait" before being released to rush outside? Or anything you can think of that your pup lives for?
How much is that dog eating? Most pups would kill for hotdogs but if you're feeding 4 cups a day or something like that it could be pretty demotivating. The prospect of a 12 course meal sounds fantastic if you haven't eaten in 24 hours but if you just got done stuffing yourself at Thanksgiving or something and then someone breaks out a 12 course meal it's pretty aversive.
How much is that dog eating? Most pups would kill for hotdogs but if you're feeding 4 cups a day or something like that it could be pretty demotivating. The prospect of a 12 course meal sounds fantastic if you haven't eaten in 24 hours but if you just got done stuffing yourself at Thanksgiving or something and then someone breaks out a 12 course meal it's pretty aversive.
This is very true.
I had an issue with my pup chewing on something that she knew was wrong and I caught her in the act. I did not feed her for 1 day. No treats, no food. The next day, she was like a different pup. She obeyed everything I said and never chewed on that item since.
Food is extremely powerful, but only when the dog is viewing it as a necessitiy / survival. If the pup is eating too much, she is not yet in survival mode.
I would take a close look at how much the pup is eating.
Imo if you have to upgrade treats and basically bribe the dog then you should change how you train. If the dog doesn't want to interact with you and only wants food then the relationship isn't there.
Ha ha, seems teenage amnesia is quite common. My boy Jake, came down with pano at 7 months, a mild case, but I still gave him time off from training. Mistake! Now at 8 months we are going through all the basics. Again. That's ok, we just set ourselves back a little. Now it's repetition, repetition throughout the day. He never did forget how to chase the cat though!
Yes. Yogi was down with a nasty case of undiagnosed giardia then had a hernia repair surgery done. That probably has a lot to do with his disobedient behavior.
Motivation, timing and consistency. My trainer repeated that over and over,
Food or toy drive, motivation, gotta build it up <see bailiff comments
Timing, marking the behavior quickly enough that the puppy makes the connection
Consistency as Carmen said in another thread, consistency equals trust to the dog.
Micheal Ellis DVD the power of training with food, he does a good job breaking this down step by step for us newbies.
I'd ditch the trainer as it sounds like she's making excuses for her ineptitude with you, her client.
I don't agree with food deprivation training - I know, I'm going against the flow, lol - but instead I'd look at the motivation behind the motivators. For example, food deprivation works because the dog has to eat, that's an easy one. But why are the toys not interesting, and why isn't he making eye contact? Being the social creatures that they are, you should be able to work this in your favor. How much attention do you typically give your pup, and on whose terms? Do you lavish him with love every time he comes looking for it? Maybe that's the problem, and he needs to understand that life doesn't revolve around him. Just a thought.
How much attention do you typically give your pup, and on whose terms? Do you lavish him with love every time he comes looking for it? Maybe that's the problem, and he needs to understand that life doesn't revolve around him. Just a thought.
That's what I was thinking a couple posts back with the NILIF. Especially if he's a charming dog who's not really bad (destructive, out of control) so much as defiant about doing what he's told.
He sounds young, he needs WAY more positive reinforcement training, repetitions and consistency IMO.
Also, reward never becomes non-existent, he just learns to work harder for it.
Here is how it was explained to me by an awesome IPO trainer:
Teach your dog reward is like a harvest is to people. It is always coming, but you have to put it "X" amount of work to get it. When people grow crops, they work hard, diligently, and without fail, in anticipation of a reward that is months out. That reward is tremendous, so in knowing that the farmers put in everything they have. Once that harvest comes, the feeling that all that work put in was worth it encompasses the being.
This is how dogs should view reward - hope it makes sense!
Also, it is something to be built up to. By the time my dogs were ready for their BH this concept had been instilled. But we worked and trained for MANY, MANY hours with short games, HIGH levels of reward and play prior to starting to build that up.
And SUCCESS!!! He's listening without treats. I took one of the links off of his prong and kept it up by his ears. I think it was too low. It wasn't around where his normal collar sits by any means but I moved it up about an inch and now he's doing the commands perfectly. The corrections weren't strong enough. He's still wagging his tail and I can tell the corrections aren't breaking his spirit. But he IS listening better than ever. Making eye contact now too - which is super exciting!
He's improved so much that he is now doing sit, down, and stay with hand signals and voice commands from 25' away. Almost 100% every command even with five kids (mine and the new neighbor kids who just moved in last weekend) riding around on bikes and scooters and people he doesn't know walking around.
OH! And my husband was getting him all riled up by shuffling his feet and jumping around and I STILL got Yogi to immediately stop and look at me and he went into a down. That was AMAZING.
*-*Summer*-*
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