I teach the OUT by making the tug go dead, and then immediately rewarding the out with a re bite. The game stops until the dog outs, and then immediately starts again.
I caution against bribing the dog to return the toy by showing it another one. You are just setting up a situation where the dog will only bring you something when you have something to offer.
I like to teach the dog that the act of tugging is the fun thing, not the possession of the tug.
I teach the OUT by making the tug go dead, and then immediately rewarding the out with a re bite. The game stops until the dog outs, and then immediately starts again.
I caution against bribing the dog to return the toy by showing it another one. You are just setting up a situation where the dog will only bring you something when you have something to offer.
I like to teach the dog that the act of tugging is the fun thing, not the possession of the tug.
David I was looking for a video like that when someone asked on my thread ......... I am going to PM them and point them here. Thanks for posting. It is the way the police here train it and if anyone needs a reliable out........of course one of the things I have learned....a stiffer dog easier to go dead
LOL that first cup of coffee is a bear.........past my 10 minute edit time, too . Of course you just gave me a flashback to that book "101 things to do with a dead cat"
Some folks don't like two ball for fetch. Do you think this sets it up? In that scenario you are not engaged with the tug. I have and still play two ball because it is a great way to exercise in a short amount of time.....just curious since it was suggested for the OP.
This is really interesting. Think it would work with a tennis ball? Titan is awesome at dropping anything but that lol.. have been looking for a new way.
It's REALLY hard to make a tennis ball dead enough for initial training, even with a rope attached. You almost always have to pull towards you, which keeps the dog in the game.
I teach the OUT with a tug and then transition to a ball with a string, then to a regular ball.
Some learning points from someone who managed to mess THAT up
Stiff hard tug is easier to make dead but you have to build the dog up to holding it.
Be generous...most people (raises hand) progress from giving back to keeping it way to fast-you have to build time. So multiple reps and do it a lot before you actually just keep it. I am doing 3-4 reps in a session right now.
Have a release word to allow the dog to reclaim the tug each time. Do it quickly! As soon as he outs. Don't make him wait.
Don't get too carried away with tug play between outs
IF the dog is strong enough to continue the game with you making it dead by yanking YOU around...I learned to put my leg forward to support his weight, hold the tug higher and give the sit command but that may be more than you need or is not consistent with the above.......on learning here with one who really wants to keep tugging.
I am still on a learning curve with mine having made some mistakes so feel free to correct.
@Joycoyn and David- the video does help paint a better picture, thanks. Zoe has very high intensity using a flirt pole, she will get to a point in the game where she will not let go. You can put her in a down, roll her over, etc.. not happening. Letting her win/parade has helped tremendously, but her out could still be better.
This brings up a good point that Nancy touched on.
Especially during training the OUT, you don't want to have massive 45 second tug sessions and then ask for an OUT. This leads to the dog sticking. You want 2-3-4 quick swings and then the tug goes dead. That's it.
Later on, you can build on the behavior until the dog will out in any condition and drive state. This takes time though.
What are peoples idea if a dog actually won't out and where it is hard to stabilize the tug as it is pulling back so much.
My friends dog is like this. He just locks on to anything he can and doesn't growl or every get aggressive. He just has this glare in his eye and will put up with a lot of punishment and still hold the ball, or tug or stick.
When he's going for the tug he will also nip fingers.
Zoe catches the flirt pole toy very quickly, each round only lasts a few seconds. I've tried using tiny lures and even tried nothing trying to extend the game a few more seconds, so I'm not sure thats the problem.
Teaching a dog to out with tension is practically a separate exercise although it is learned really quickly once the basic out is in place. So when you make the tug go dead try to prevent tension if possible. Also don't hold the tug by the handles as it allows the dog to self satisfy into the moving tug while you make it go dead.
So when you make the tug go dead try to prevent tension if possible. Also don't hold the tug by the handles as it allows the dog to self satisfy into the moving tug while you make it go dead.
If you don't hold the handles of the tug what do you hold.
And again how do you 'make the tug go dead' if a dog is intent on winning the tug.
I can see the technique working on a pup or a dog who is not mad for the tug.
Basically a dog with a lot of experience of winning the tug and dominating anything that enters his mouth is a different story.
I use the pause and wait til the dog releases method, and the waive another tug or ball around to encourage the dog to release and a correction method to out.
Actually that is why I was taught to do it with the tug held up higher....and give him the sit command. He has to let go to sit and is corrected for not sitting. Different approach but several police I know use it.
I moved to a piece of heavy heater hose. A teammate has a dowel through hers to make it even stiffer. No flex. Also dog both front feet off the ground has less leverage. No handles. I was using the Leerburg 15" no handle tug for difficult to out dogs but it had too much flex.
Held up higher, but not lifting the dog off the ground. It also puts the dogs head in a different angle. I do the same thing when I lock up with sleeve/suit. I suck my arm in, up, and rotate a bit to put the dog in a different angle. One for me to control the dog, and two because for some reason they just want to let go in that position. Again, I'm only talking about teaching an out. Not a dog that already has an understanding of an out.
I'm just looking at this for a dog which is yanking on the tug and not giving you a chance to 'let the tug go dead' as is being suggested. How can the tug go dead if the dog is locked on and using all his strength to drag away from you.
I can see how that technique works for many situations. As I said upstream i know this dog that will not give up as he has been winning tug and anything else that enters his mouth since he was a pup.
I'd like to see this dog taught an out with out a correction but I can't see it happening.
The out needs to be between handler and dog. It should not be taught on the decoy. There shouldn't be that much conflict/fight in the game IMO. If the dog is pulling the handler around, why not move to a slick floor or back the dog against a wall even use a bite box so the dog is contained? All I'm trying to say is there are many little tricks (like Nancy's) that can be used before just correcting for it. If you have to correct the out all the time then how are you suppose to out the dog from a distance? e-collar? Don't get me wrong, I do give corrections for outs, just not when teaching it.
That is why I was told to hold mine up high . And corrections were involved for not "sitting" which is a known command. Had to out to sit....but had it been done properly from the start, and then maintained......we would not be there.
Its how ivan and michael do it. Id you wanna see it get ivans the game dvd or michaels tug dvd. There are ways to make the tug dead and stable and boring even if the dog holds on. the dog
I usually wait em out. Once you stabilize the tug they generally get bored. If you remember how i teach off for puppy biting and then generalize it for getting him to stop messing with other stuff it helps because off and out sound very similar and hes already sort of primed to give not messing with the tug a try. Its a little trick i use.
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