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-   -   how to train the long down under distraction (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/how-do-i-teach-my-dog/391794-how-train-long-down-under-distraction.html)

ian 123 01-06-2014 03:08 AM

how to train the long down under distraction
 
Hi guys I am trying to train my gsd the long down under distraction and im having some trouble. Her long down is fine if nobody else is around but once she sees a dog or person she gets excited and breaks it. Has anyone got advice on how to fix this? I was thinking of using my ecollar which would allow me to correct her from a distance but i dont know if it would behelpful? Thanks!

gaia_bear 01-06-2014 04:58 PM

Once you're adding in the distraction slowly build up the distance away and the duration. Start small and build up.

I wouldn't go to the e-collar yet as a long down alone is completely different than one with distractions.

crackem 01-06-2014 05:05 PM

I think you have more work before you can add an ecollar or should add one. I don't think you need it.


you train it like everything else. How did you train a long down? just tell her to down then walk away and she did it? or did you stand close and make her hold it for various amounts of time. What did you do when she broke then? you didn't have an ecollar.

so you start close, you tell them when they are wrong and make the do it right. As they're doing it "right" you add duration and then you add distance. When you want to add distractions, you have to come back closer and decrease the time and build it back up.

The biggest thing is not to let them get reward by breaking the command. They should still have a leash on, a long one you can walk over and step on.

If they do get up and go to another dog, mine would get put in the crate. I would just grab that leash and take them away and not say a word.

But of course my relationship was built with them over a long period. They learn that after the "learning" part, they are only going to get so many opportunities to do something "right" before they don't have an opportunity to do anything at all.

LouCastle 01-07-2014 11:06 AM

I don't suggest using the Ecollar to correct a dog for breaking a down (or for doing anything else for that matter) UNLESS the dog has been taught what the stim means. If you have not done this, then you'll probably get confusion, unreliability and will hurt your work.

ian 123 01-08-2014 03:48 AM

Thanks alot for the tips guys. Lou, I used the ecollar to train the recall using your method and since I seen how effective it was I thought it might help my long down. So if the dog breaks the down will I say nothing, and correct her into the down position again? Im working towards my schutzhund BH title and we seem have everything else down except for this!

dpc134 01-08-2014 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian 123 (Post 4794210)
Thanks alot for the tips guys. Lou, I used the ecollar to train the recall using your method and since I seen how effective it was I thought it might help my long down. So if the dog breaks the down will I say nothing, and correct her into the down position again? Im working towards my schutzhund BH title and we seem have everything else down except for this!

This is exactly what I have been doing. So far, it has been working with my dog.
I give her the Down command and then the Stay command, with a long lead line attached. If she breaks the down, I grab the lead line, make the correction (I dont say anything), bring her back to the original spot (so she doesnt gain any ground by moving out of the down command), take her back to the down position and then repeat the "Stay" command as I walk away.
I initially was using rewards as motivation to stay during distractions, but that did not work when there were other more interesting things to do (like play with other dogs). I am amazed at the improvement with the Down-Stay command using the method I described above.
All dogs are different, but this has worked well for me.

mycobraracr 01-08-2014 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackem (Post 4784546)
I think you have more work before you can add an ecollar or should add one. I don't think you need it.


you train it like everything else. How did you train a long down? just tell her to down then walk away and she did it? or did you stand close and make her hold it for various amounts of time. What did you do when she broke then? you didn't have an ecollar.

so you start close, you tell them when they are wrong and make the do it right. As they're doing it "right" you add duration and then you add distance. When you want to add distractions, you have to come back closer and decrease the time and build it back up.

The biggest thing is not to let them get reward by breaking the command. They should still have a leash on, a long one you can walk over and step on.

If they do get up and go to another dog, mine would get put in the crate. I would just grab that leash and take them away and not say a word.

But of course my relationship was built with them over a long period. They learn that after the "learning" part, they are only going to get so many opportunities to do something "right" before they don't have an opportunity to do anything at all.

^^^ This. As you add something, you take something away. You probably first started the long dog by going for time first. Then added distance but shortened the time again. Then started increasing your time with distance. Now your adding distraction, so shorten the time and the distance. As the dog improves with the distraction, add in more time, distance and so on.

onyx'girl 01-08-2014 10:50 AM

We usually backtie the dog and also hold a long line about 20 paces away....reward the dog(treats) often and eventually move farther away with verbal rewarding .
When we train this there is always another team on the field so the dog gets use to distractions early on.
If the dog continually breaks the down, the handler will stand next to the dog and back up in the training.
I don't agree with correcting *at the position* because it may backfire and the dog would think the position is the reason for the correction.
If the dog breaks it when the handler is on the long line, the backtie line will do the correcting, then the handler verbally correct and bring them back to position.
Eventually proof it with higher distractions.

Liesje 01-08-2014 11:04 AM

I train my distance from the dog and the other dog/team's distance from my dog as two different things and try not to overwhelm the dog all at once. My preference is to work on the latter first. So, I am standing right next to my dog while in the down and the other team is working close by. I correct when the dog gets out of position, reward when he is good. I always go to the dog myself and reward while he's in position (don't have the dog break the position to come to you for a reward). When you're done with the down, make sure the dog has a clear break cue so he knows when he's done and is free to move away (or, I prefer to step back into the dog and give a "sit" command since that's what would be used in Schutzhund). If I'm working on adding more distance between me and the dog, then I have the other dog/handler move much farther away. I always have a long line on the dog that I am holding and often a second one that another person is controlling.

Baillif 01-08-2014 01:27 PM

Dog already knows what the long down is he just breaks it because of the distractions. Mark the action of the dog getting up the second he does it and then punish the dog. Then put the dog back into the down and repeat the distraction the exact same way it happened before. If the dog gets up again you repeat the punishment. If the dog stays down you reward. Start with smaller distractions and then work up to more advanced ones.


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