Stock chasing - help needed - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 05:58 PM
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Thats not good. People shoot dogs over something like that.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bryant88 View Post
Thats not good. People shoot dogs over something like that.

I see you are a new member and I hope you stick around. However, I also hope you have more to offer than the above post, which is most decidedly not, any way you bend it, helpful in the least.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 10:34 PM
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Hello again, lone Ranger here, who lives with horses, and cattle, with three German Shepherds...

Look, the e-collar response I was talking about will not stop the herding instinct as someone suggested. On good kick in the head, can kill your beloved Friend. You only teach them to stay out of striking distance.

They can still herd, just not get in close like they are going to nip at the heels like a Blue Heeler will here in Australia. For some reason they have thick skulls and might take a kick, NOT SO with our GSDs...

I would use, will use, have used, the e-collar to shock them if they get TOO CLOSE... They would get this with a kick and learn for themselves, but we just cannot afford that. Consequently the e-collar will teach them the same message of a kick if they get too close, only in this case a shock.

I do not see that impeding, and has not impeded the herding instinct in mine... HOWEVER: It did teach them respect and they do not get too close, as in short kicking range.. If they do, they are really nimble and on their toes because they know to get too close and that animal can BITE

Kind regards, dancing with wolves in Australia
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-11-2013, 10:06 PM
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Almost lost my prized Pup Wolf Caesar yesterday....

My highly intelligent prized pup, 14 weeks, 40 lbs, showing herding instincts, fetches 5-10 times 100 % Stays 10-`15 seconds, heels on and off leash if no distractions, and so on, brag brag brag... Love him to death..

Almost lost him yesterday. Entirely my fault, as I was just too confident.. I have about a young steer, be going on maybe 800-900 lbs, that I penned up in about a 2/3 acre Stallion horse yard of post and rail with heavy treated hardwood rails... (In summer grass now in Australia, and most common wood is hardwood)... Anyway, penned him up to start to fatten for the freezer, organic grass fed now on grain, molassas and luscerne hay.. I called the steer and Caesar started barking. That was OK, but then he ducked into the yard and started the herding action and would not respond to his NO and his Recall command. The steer turned and trotted off, with me panicking and yelling his commands to which he usually responded to, but was so excited he kept on and the steer lashed out with a kick to the head....

Anyway, Caesar was sent flying, spun around, staggered off crying out, as I rushed into the pen to the rescue, in a blind panic, scared to death.. I held him and got him out, examined him, and no damage to be seen. I took him to a meeting that night, and held him and kept checking him over, teeth good, no blood, no prolonged concussion, I was VERY LUCKY, Blessed by the Lord I would say...

Around the Stock, it is only seconds, and disaster can happen.. An E-Collar is on the cards, he may not need it for the stock again, but for cars and stock reinforcing if he gets too close, he will get BIT again... The feeling of almost losing my dear friend, is too much to bear... E-collar is still the answer I think, they just go instinctively and forget in the excitement..

I am very lucky... Kind regards from Oz..

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 08:06 PM
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Yeah...probably pretty lucky!!!
He is young so not too surprising he thought that the steer looked like a fun target!!
We have stock here on our property as well as chooks, guinea fowl....well a menagerie really.....i just used a long line until Luther was 100% reliable to come off the stock.....he was about 8months old I reckon when he was 100% with the recall. I had him off it much younger around the sheep....they are not really dangerous when it comes to kicks and can be done without the e-collar BUT you have experience/success with using it.....your pup is cute and reminds me of Luther when he was a pup.....which doesn't seem that long ago!!!
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sparra View Post
i just used a long line until Luther was 100% reliable to come off the stock.....he was about 8months old I reckon when he was 100% with the recall. !!
Yea Sparra, long leash it will be... At 14 weeks he was developed so fast, I got over confident, all my fault. Long leash it is from now on..!!! I won't take a chance again that he gets over excited and the prey chase instinct takes over..
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Stock chasing - help needed

Oh Lone Ranger you were so lucky!!!
And your puppy is gorgeous!!!

My first GSD got kicked in the head by a horse and it split the corner of her eye, she needed stitches, the vet was very surprised no bone was broken (lucky the horse wasn't wearing shoes)

A neighbour of mine had a blue heeler, it had its leg broken and got totally knocked out cold by his race horses several times
Don't expect your pup to have learnt a lesson by being kicked - he may go after him again if he gets the chance!
That heeler never learnt.

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 07:52 PM
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When you live with livestock and dogs at some point in their lives their paths will cross and you may not be there to 'recall' the dog. You have to teach your dog to stay off the livestock.

In the old days (many moons ago) I was taught by a professional trainer to flip your dog when it chases livestock. Meaning use a long line, allow the dog to start the chase and before it reached the end of the line, provide a command and jerk (hard) the line. The dog would flip. How I never injured a dog or broke it's neck, I have no idea. E-collars weren't around.

I would use an E-collar. I would proof my recall. I would train daily. I'd take no chances.

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 10:25 AM
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Thanks for the mention Nancy. I agree that just hitting the dog with a high level stim can cause all sorts of unexpected problems. The dog can associate being away from the owner and decide not to leave his side. The dog can associate being in a certain field and will never go there again, even if the owner wants him to. You never know what association the dog will make with this sort of training, and if he makes the wrong one, not only will you have unexpected issues, you won't cure the problem of chasing the cattle or the horses.

HERE'S MY ARTICLE on working on this issue. If done properly, the dog makes the decision not to chase. Usually you can see improvement after the first session but the dog should not be given the opportunity to chase (that means management – either keeping the dog on leash or away from the prey animals, until after the training is completed). I recommend four sessions, the first three a day apart and the next 4−5 days later.

Originally Posted by Muskeg View Post
I like Lou's protocol but there is a lot of merit to what Loneranger suggests. Many many hunters who use dogs for duck or pig or rabbit (etc.) hunting use the "trash breaking" protocol. If you google this, you will find it basically involves showing the dog that chasing the wrong thing is very uncomfortable. It is not a pleasant way of dog training but it is effective and easy for most people to get right.
Usually this works. That is it stops the chasing. But you never know when it will go sideways and cause problems that may be quite difficult to solve. My method does not have this danger because it uses low level stim. Using high levels of stim is fraught with all sorts of fallout.
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:31 AM
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Lou, thank you for contributing to this Forum...

In my 9 years (not much really) of experience with two Shepherds and horses in the E-collar for unwanted behavior, one rule I would always give and that is you always start with low level stimulation..

I mean even with cars, if you really belt him he might even jump out into traffic .... The Royal Australian Air Force (reportedly) trains with a perimeter of low level warning on approach, then medium, then a real jolt if they try and test the limits or do not pay attention...

One style I got even had another lower level that was just an early audible warning..

Anyway, I would not want to go the highest levels unless you have to. Maybe for entering near to a oncoming car, or ground level bait, but for stock I might suggest always that low to medium stimulation to warn them... But be prepared to belt them if it does not work.

You agree? Kind regards in love for GSDs, from Australia
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