15 month old GSD extremely immature!!!! - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 12-21-2012, 02:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Normally I would agree with you on the age thing but I have worked with police narcotics K9s and my first partner was a 1 year old lab for narcotics. We had an amazing tight bond and went through a US and Canadian validation in one month and with only one miss between both (I still miss her). So anyways, they are definately metally/physically mature at 15 months. BTW, these are security patrol K9s not Police, but we are validated by the police K9 units.
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Am I missing something? He is still a bit of a puppy for serious work no? I thought most police dogs were about 2 to 2.5 before operational?

I certified Beau (NAPWDA) at 15 months but several police organizations in the states won't even consider a dog under 18 months for testing. And Beau was strictly obedience and detection. Even so he has his puppy moments.

[I admit the breaking and running was a bit much but, snow! Has his training been generalized to all kinds of different conditions?
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:05 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I agree that this could possibly be the problem, it was unavoidable though, at least on my part as I have only had him since July. This day it snowed a few hours prior to validation. I dont know if he was trained in the winter last year at all. My 5 month old GSD who is training right now is also seeing his first snow and has been really enjoying training in it. I don't own the 15 month old and I think you are correct that he was not adequately trained for different weather conditions. The validator thought it was a little extreme though, he should still have come back even if he was acting like an idiot. We had to physically retrieve him from over 500 ft away as he would not recall.
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So you learned that you had not trained him in various kinds of situations: in this case it was snow.
And I agree for 100% with APBT that he did not do this on purpose. It shows that you have to study the mind of dogs more in depth so you don't have to have your feelings hurt by your dog.
Even LE dogs are not robots and most dogs go crazy in their first snow. It would have been better had you worked him in the snow, just prior to the test.
Hope you'll give him a break and not take it out on him.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:12 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Possibly, however he gave me every indication he was ready to test, he also went through 2 pretests prior to booking and seemed completely focussed...of course it wasn't snowing then though
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This is a question, and by all means does not reflect on the OP's ability to handle the dog.

Could the dog have reacted to too much pressure being placed on it to go through validation when it really wasn't clear to the handler if the dog was ready or not?
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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lack of the recall is a deal breaker -- shows there is a lack of desire to work with --
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:49 AM   #25 (permalink)
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when it comes to recommending dogs , no let's go back one or two steps , when it comes to working with dogs all along the way they are being tested and observed for their natural work attitude , and choices that they make , dedication to task , focus, and stability . I will reject them if there is any doubt . I like things to be there . Not created . Many many many of my dogs have gone into programs at about 11 months to 16 months , one as young as 9 months (Stark - Buffalo) and all passed certification first time round . They either have it or they don't . One of the ones that entered at around 11 months was a black sable long coat Flint Untitled who had a grand long career , winning 3 medals at the USPCA police trials shortly after joining the force , and with a very good open minded , first time handler (thank you Jeff !)
Untitled Flint lived into his 12 th year - he was special requested by FBI , to participate in an anti-terrorist round up "made to have him put down Friday.
In 1997, the then-named Lindsay Police Service introduced the force's first-ever canine unit, which served Lindsay and the now former Ops Township for seven years.
Flint was responsible for many drug seizures and arrests. In 2000, he was key in the arrest of two men who had stolen some $8,000 in merchandise from Lindsay Square Mall.
The dog also intervened when an emotionally disturbed man armed with a knife tried to have police take his life. No one was hurt.
In 1998, the pair received national recognition after winning three medals at the Canadian Law Enforcement Games in Waterloo. Flint and Wentworth were even called on for a joint anti-terrorism effort led by the FBI in 2002"

another one - Strike - entered in training at the just past one year mark Untitled


Carmspack Keno - who entered Metro Toronto k9 at 11 months worked almost to his 11th year and at 5 years won the Purina Hall of Fame


Keno
1997

Service
Dog
of the
Year
Toronto, Ontario Keno, a five-year-old German Shepherd, owned by Constable John Gerrits, suffered severe injures in his successful attempt in capturing a breaking-and-entering suspect. Constable Gerrits and his police service dog Keno answered an emergency call about a breaking-and-entering in progress. When they arrived at the scene, the suspect had already begun to escape from the crime area. During the chase, Keno rounded a corner and was struck by an on-coming car. Despite Keno's severe bleeding from the accident, the canine continued to chase the suspect. Keno quickly caught up with the suspect and tackled him to the ground. He then gripped the criminal's arm, allowing the officers to arrest him. As a result of the accident, Keno required stitches in his leg and suffered head injuries


They have it or they do not.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:53 AM   #26 (permalink)
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so what I am saying is that I would dismiss this dog and not even wait for an official evaluation. There are some things which just need to be there without question , bond , handler interest , reliability , dependability , totally necessary . With this mindset of the dog I would always be anxious for the next goof up .
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:57 AM   #27 (permalink)
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That's why I have decided to give up on him, a refusal to recall shows me he doesn't want to work with me. Not all handlers and dogs are compatable, this dog is not the right partner for me. My first patrol partner was his mother ironically, and she would have thrown herself in front of a car to protect me, she literally never needed a leash and saved me from certain harm at least twice. When she passed away from cancer it was devestating, it took a while before I could accept another partner.
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lack of the recall is a deal breaker -- shows there is a lack of desire to work with --
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:08 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Thank you very much for your informative reply, the question of whether this dog is suitable for this kind of work is something I have brought up with my boss before and he refuses to believe it. But this is my life and ultimately I dont want a partner I cant trust. There are always going to be distractions and new things but the dog needs to have the drive and desire to work through these things and focus on the job at hand. Training plays a big role but genetics and personality play a bigger role like you said.
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so what I am saying is that I would dismiss this dog and not even wait for an official evaluation. There are some things which just need to be there without question , bond , handler interest , reliability , dependability , totally necessary . With this mindset of the dog I would always be anxious for the next goof up .
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:31 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Definately NOT cute, I love my dogs and there is a time for play but he knew this was time to work. I will take this as a learning expeirence though. As for his future, he may be paired with another handler as I dont think my boss is willing to accept what the validator said. I will not be re-testing with him though. I would like to see him go to good family instead.
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Originally Posted by Gretchen View Post
So if your dog for some reason cannot do patrol work, can you still keep him a working dog for scent detection?

All my dog wants to do at training is play on the agility equipment. She's been like that as a pup and now she's 2.5, so I don't know if your dog will change. Last training session we practiced a recall from a long distance, my dog ran to the fun, curvy tunnel about 20' to my left instead of me, went through and then came to me.

Our dog did not start behaving in a more mature way until she was just over 18 months, so maybe your dog is still too young, see if you can re-evaluate in 3-4 months. Sorry you felt embarrassed, can't help but think your dog must have looked kind of cute playing in the snow though.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:35 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Thank you everyone for all your varied input, it's great to have a group of GSD lovers/experts to chat with when you feel overwhelmed. Merry Christmas to u all!
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