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Old 12-14-2012, 07:02 PM   #61 (permalink)
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They are spayed.
One was for our 21 year old daughter, but the dog is s handful, they are both reactive. So Ellie was too much and came to live with us. They are able to spend time apart but not much.

What kind of interaction is healthy? That is what I meant, I assume I just crate one when it is getting tense.
They do love each other and play well together, but I do see things becoming more serious.
Dotty, help us understand, you say one was for our daughter, you said earlier you bought them out of grief. Did you buy both puppies?

Did you buy a puppy for your daughter? If that is the case, then I can well understand bailing her out. But now your have your daughter's bird also?

Some people shouldn't have pets period. If she is partying and not managing to take care of her pets, then partying is more important than pets, and she probably shouldn't own a pet. But if she is a person who is going to run out and get another pet, and when it's newness wears off, dumps it on you, then you have to start pushing back. Put your foot down. No more. Because if that is the case, you are enabling your daughter in some pretty unhealthy behavior.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I was thinking of driving down to the Michael Ellis school in California for 2 weeks.

I am on the West Coast, in Vancouver.

I am open to suggestions, thank you.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:34 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Izzy is much better, we can walk by dogs and people now. I think she is ready. Like I said Izzy and I have been doing focus work for months now.

Her only trigger now is if someone approaches her with their hand out, looking her in the eye. Or a dog eyeballing her and of course a dog lunging at her.

That could be a protective thing.

I was actually going to post a question about that.

The difference between -reactive barking- versus -protective barking-

I have no idea what is a typical behavior for a barker. My other dog (RIP) never barked, except when he was young.
I think owners of reactive pups (for GSDs under 2) have a tough job. They have to take leadership to a higher level. They have to be aware of dogs that are eyeballing there dog and long before there is any lunging they need to step in between and without actually retreating, adjust the situation so the two dogs are not brought near enough for your dog to be threatened.

As for people with the outstretched hand. I firmly believe that most reactive dogs are scaredy dogs, and maturity coupled with some positive experiences will greatly reduce or totally eliminate this behavior. Building there confidence in you through training, and themselves through learning and being praised for accomplishments, is huge. Agility training is a full body work out, positive, lots of treats and praise, fun, fun, fun for dogs, and it really seems to help bring an otherwise timid pup out.

And it is at your obedience training, and possibly agility classes, that you can let your pup get those few canine/human polite say-hello. For everyone else, strangers on the street, if they approach your dog with an outstretched hand, step forward and say "Sorry, she's in training." If you set your dog up with dog-people who are unlikely to be afraid in the first place, and unlikely to come right down on her head with their hands, and you don't over do it, she should become a little more approachable. What I will do is with the dog sitting at my side, and a dog-person standing in front offering a hand, I will say, "say hello." The girl will stretch her nose forward and sniff the hand. Then I praise. I do not start out with allowing petting from strangers if the dog seems uncomfortable. After a while, they get to the point where in class we will get to the "may I pet your dog?" And at that point, the instructor comes forward, not a complete stranger, offers a hand, and then scritches under the chin/chest, and up on the side of the head.

Pretty soon the classes will often have other members come down the line and say hello to each of us, and shake our hands while the dog sits by our side. Usually we don't have everyone pet each other's dog, but the instructor might have her associate trainer and sometimes another person do this. It just ensures that the experiences the dog has is non-threatening, as the dog gets more of these experiences, she will become more relaxed, and soon it won't have to be a experienced dog-person, and she will not automatically think that the person will hurt her.

While all that is going on, through all the training, the dog is gaining in confidence in herself, and gaining in confidence in you. As the weeks go by, she is maturing, and gaining in confidence, and soon will take her cues from you. If you are nervous and holding the leash with the grip of death, that will make her anxious and heighten her reactivity. If you are calm, and give her a command, "SIT" and then, "SAY HELLO" She will be like, Oh yeah, I know this, this person is ok.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:35 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Most dogs at the age Izzy is are reactive out of fear not protective behavior.
The ones that are truly aggressive protective are far and few between(she may be one of them?).
Thresholds play into it as well.

Is the behaviorist or trainer you will be visiting knowledgeable on the GSD?
I know it was mentioned NOT to get with a SchH club, but I would possibly contact a club for an evaluation, it won't hurt and the TD/ members in the club knows the breed better than "pet" trainers.
Though if the trainers you've contacted are very familiar with the breed(and hopefully the lines you have) then all good!
Apparently she is very familiar with the breed, so that is good. We had to wait 2 and a half months to get the appt.



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Dotty, help us understand, you say one was for our daughter, you said earlier you bought them out of grief. Did you buy both puppies?

Did you buy a puppy for your daughter? If that is the case, then I can well understand bailing her out. But now your have your daughter's bird also?

Some people shouldn't have pets period. If she is partying and not managing to take care of her pets, then partying is more important than pets, and she probably shouldn't own a pet. But if she is a person who is going to run out and get another pet, and when it's newness wears off, dumps it on you, then you have to start pushing back. Put your foot down. No more. Because if that is the case, you are enabling your daughter in some pretty unhealthy behavior.
We went together to get the dogs.

She loves animals!! You know the people, you can tell it in their expression when they see a dog, their face softens and their eyes light up. A true animal lover, that is her.

She had her bird (she has had the bird since she was 14, and has taken great care of it) everything was good. She moved out, she was doing super and the bird was happy. She treated the bird like her little lap dog.

She had helped us care for our very senior dog, and loved him to pieces. She carried him when he needed to be, she cleaned up after his accidents, she loved and cared for him as we would. She came with us in the middle of the night to help him pass over.

My mom just died an now our dog Dirk. I was still in shock over it all, NOT thinking. My chest was still heavy with all the sadness.

We decided to get a puppy, the breeder said she had two left. Then my daughter wanted the other.

She promised she would care for her dog, the whole thing. I bought her the dog.

She LOVED Ellie and was so committed, she never went out, Ellie went everywhere with her. She fussed over Ellie like crazy.
Ellie started getting bigger, stronger and unstable. I signed her up for training lessons, classes, she always had an excuse not to go. We had privates, but she was not into it.

Longer story short, she was not taking the training seriously or the exercise Ellie needed.

She still loves the dog, she is irresponsible at the moment. She has moved 3 times since Ellie came to live with us.

She won't get another pet, she loves the ones she has now.

That is the daughter/Ellie story. When they see each other, it is
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:41 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Dotty, your website thingsforwings is cool! I have parrots too and the prices on your toys are reasonable....especially when they are made to be destroyed! What type of parrot does your daughter have?
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:48 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Dotty, your website thingsforwings is cool! I have parrots too and the prices on your toys are reasonable....especially when they are made to be destroyed! What type of parrot does your daughter have?
Thank you!
What kind of birds?


Daughter has a little cockatiel, named Duncan
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:53 PM   #67 (permalink)
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She loves animals!! You know the people, you can tell it in their expression when they see a dog, their face softens and their eyes light up. A true animal lover, that is her.
Please don't take this as rude or mean, I am simply sharing my own thoughts/opinions.

Just because she is an "animal lover" doesn't mean she needs to have an animal. With both HER pets living with you, having you do everything for them, she honestly doesn't have any. YOU do.
She does love them, from your description. Everyone here can tell. What she doesn't seem to love is taking the responsibility to care for them. Again, not trying to be mean or rude or anything. I'm just speaking my mind. I apologize if I have misjudged what I've been reading or if this offends you. My sister is the same way (would rather party or go out with friends than care for her dog, despite how much she loves her).

How old is your daughter?
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Please don't take this as rude or mean, I am simply sharing my own thoughts/opinions.

Just because she is an "animal lover" doesn't mean she needs to have an animal. With both HER pets living with you, having you do everything for them, she honestly doesn't have any. YOU do.
She does love them, from your description. Everyone here can tell. What she doesn't seem to love is taking the responsibility to care for them. Again, not trying to be mean or rude or anything. I'm just speaking my mind. I apologize if I have misjudged what I've been reading or if this offends you.

How old is your daughter?
No offense taken at all.

She is 21 years old.

She has always been a little bit overindulged. A princess you might say.

She is cut off now.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #69 (permalink)
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GSD's can be overwhelming for any age. I don't think that many young people know what they are getting into when they get a puppy, let alone a GSD.
I know many younger adults are very responsible, but their schedules are not conducive to being a dog parent, let alone a child parent.
I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to judge Dotty's daughter when Dotty said they got the pups impulsively. Hopefully DD will be more responsible when another pet enters her life/but I don't think discussing her 'lack of' is appropriate if she isn't here to defend herself.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:04 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Well I apologize for not properly saying what I was trying to say. I wasn't judging her daughter, like I said... My sister is the same way. And so are all but three of my friends. Not everyone is ready for this kind of commitment. The only reason I can handle it is because I have no social life, am too young for alcohol and don't care for it anyways. Add in an aversion to be around people and I'm the perfect dog-a-holic LOL!
I guess someone might understand the point I was trying to make. I would restate it if I knew a better way to put it.
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