Female litter mates, 13 mos starting to fight

[wolfy dog]

A friend of mine in grade school had a miniature poodle. She had pups, they kept a daughter and the mother dog killed the young dog when that dog was a young adult during the night one time. Males fight for hierarchy but females fight to drive the other female out.

[JakodaCD OA]

I give you thumbs up for dealing with these two girls, I don't think I'd have the patience or really want to deal with all that stress.

They ARE both beautiful dogs! All I can add, to the good ideas already posted, is this. IF you are going to keep both of them, you mentioned going to Michael Ellis school / train them yourself..My gosh if you have the chance to go to ME school, I would take it in a heartbeat)

Can one bring a 'dog' to ME school? If so, I'd be taking your daughters dogs since she sounds like she has anxiety/more issues than Ellie?

[Verivus]

I think seeing a behaviorist and introducing NILIF is starting in the right direction if you're willing to work to keep them. As you've been doing, monitor them and see what is triggering the fights. Once you know the triggers then you can start figuring out how to avoid them.

[Dotty]

Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA

I give you thumbs up for dealing with these two girls, I don't think I'd have the patience or really want to deal with all that stress.

They ARE both beautiful dogs! All I can add, to the good ideas already posted, is this. IF you are going to keep both of them, you mentioned going to Michael Ellis school / train them yourself..My gosh if you have the chance to go to ME school, I would take it in a heartbeat)

Can one bring a 'dog' to ME school? If so, I'd be taking your daughters dogs since she sounds like she has anxiety/more issues than Ellie?

I was going to bring my gal, Izzy, she has her own issues. I was thinking of bringing Ellie instead, but I want to get something out of it and enjoy it if I can, Ellie might a little much and stress me out.

Originally Posted by wolfy dog

A friend of mine in grade school had a miniature poodle. She had pups, they kept a daughter and the mother dog killed the young dog when that dog was a young adult during the night one time. Males fight for hierarchy but females fight to drive the other female out.

Geez

They are always in a controlled environment. If they are left alone for an hour, they are crated. If we go out for more then a couple hours or overnight, they are sent to different sitters (neighbors). At night they are in our room.

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I have two spayed females and have to manage them, though they are fine for the most part. I make the dominant female carry a ball in her mouth whenever they are playing(she knows she needs it too!) so the option of biting when she gets ramped up is put into that ball.
I don't know how your dogs play, but mine sound like they are killing each other, when in fact it is noise involved w/ the play. When I see posturing, I will step in and remove one.

You have working lines and they do need an outlet for their mental being. Other than walks, do you do anything with either of them? Agility, tracking or nosework, treibball, whatever to keep them mentally and physically active may help? You don't have to go to group classes for some of these activities, just have the equipment and look at some vids w/ instruction to begin.

We haven't done anything organized, I am dying to do that, but I need to get this reactivity under control first.

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

YES!!!!!

They are reactive dogs - this is a problem in and of itself.
Your lives are stressful - this is going to escalate until there is some serious, $$$$$$ damage - 2 dogs trying to kill each other causes big big big vet bills...and possibly people getting hurt as well
when only one is in the house, it is like a normal household - see, you KNOW the answer!!! either your daughter takes on her dog, or you get it rehomed - and keep them separate until then....

I have had bitch fights - it is scary, it is dangerous, and there is a definite possibility of one dog killing the other as they get older, stronger and the animosity escalates - and it WILL.

Please, please, for everyone's sake - take measures to resolve this before you have a serious incident...

Lee

Thank you for your input, believe me I am taking all these warnings seriously.

[onyx'girl]

Reactive behavior will sometimes wane with maturity. The book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt helped me learn to manage Onyx. I was lucky to take a class w/ Onyx based on the book. If you don't have this book, I would invest in it....the exercises laid out are very helpful. Welcome to Dogwise.com

[Dotty]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

Reactive behavior will sometimes wane with maturity. The book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt helped me learn to manage Onyx. I was lucky to take a class w/ Onyx based on the book. If you don't have this book, I would invest in it....the exercises laid out are very helpful. Welcome to Dogwise.com

I am going to order that tonight, thank you!

Originally Posted by Verivus

I think seeing a behaviorist and introducing NILIF is starting in the right direction if you're willing to work to keep them. As you've been doing, monitor them and see what is triggering the fights. Once you know the triggers then you can start figuring out how to avoid them.

I checked the NILIF and it seems pretty simple. Will start that tonight.

[Freestep]

The reactivity and other issues you are seeing are typical of dogs raised with a littermate. "Littermate Syndrome" is a multi-faceted problem. You may find that, if separated into different households, each dog will stop the reactive stuff on her own and become a better dog.

If you can make your household seem like a one-dog household at all times, that would be ideal. If the two get along well when out in the yard, allow them to play in the yard--but only dog loose in the house at a time. Walk each dog separately, play and train with each separately. Crate and rotate. Feed them separately.

The more you can train, the better. It is time well spent, and you will see results if you stick to it.

[Liesje]

I still think your daughter needs to be involved. If one of the dogs is hers she needs to take responsibility for it, whether that is her or sending the dog back to the breeder. That should be her responsibility. I don't always agree with the way my siblings raise and train their pets but as long as they aren't being abused I try to be available to help when asked.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Liesje

I still think your daughter needs to be involved. If one of the dogs is hers she needs to take responsibility for it, whether that is her or sending the dog back to the breeder. That should be her responsibility. I don't always agree with the way my siblings raise and train their pets but as long as they aren't being abused I try to be available to help when asked.

Exactly, people don't learn to take responsibility when you always take the responsibility away from them. If it is her dog, it is her dog and she needs to take charge of it.

[wolfy dog]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Exactly, people don't learn to take responsibility when you always take the responsibility away from them. If it is her dog, it is her dog and she needs to take charge of it.

It's called "tough love". It is harder on the mother than on the kid but it works like a charm. It will each your daughter to think twice next time when she knows mom doesn't solve it any longer.