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Old 12-05-2012, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Please critique this training exercise

Every time we have our playtime, I try to throw some form of command enforcement exercise. Whether it's a random "wait", or a random heel.

In this case, Kira was retreiving her fetch in anticipation of me throwing the stick in my hand. I surprised her with a "wait" command.

Since I don't know anything about proper training, I was wonder what I could add to this?
She will stop and "wait" whether she's running to or from me. I want to strengthen this under different conditions, but I'm not sure what to add to this.

Suggestions welcomed.


Last edited by Anthony8858; 12-05-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I always make the dog wait to retrieve after I throw. Some times I'll call back or platz the dog during the send a way.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=robk;2647799]I always make the dog wait to retrieve after I throw. Some times I'll call back or platz the dog during the send a way.[/QUOTE]

Don't understnd.

Are you saying that you would stop the dog while on the fetch?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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[quote=Anthony8858;2647802]
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
I always make the dog wait to retrieve after I throw. Some times I'll call back or platz the dog during the send a way.[/QUOTE]

Don't understnd.

Are you saying that you would stop the dog while on the fetch?
I do this. I ask for obedience, give the command to wait, throw the ball, release Hunter, and command a "platz" half way to the ball. He has very high ball/toy drive so this type of proofing gives me the confidence to have him off leash.

At first, the second he dropped I would release him again to take the ball - his reward for dropping immediately. Over time I added time and made him wait a few minutes before he could pursue the ball. Sometimes I ask for him to return to me, give me focused heeling, then release him to the ball afterwards.

This paid off for me. He can be far away from me and will drop on command. He has done so several times when it was necessary. A huge group of people on a trail on bikes, had him drop to the side and wait for me. Chasing a bunny towards a street while playing in a field, had him drop and then come back to me. It pays off.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
I always make the dog wait to retrieve after I throw. Some times I'll call back or platz the dog during the send a way.
Can you elaborate how you train the dog to platz on the send away?

I'm currently training my dog for this - whether it's in the middle of a send away or just in the middle of something. She got it but I want to see how others train it because my training skills is lacking as i want her "downed" faster and more crisp. Right now it's more like... run run run, I yell down, she slows then downs slowly. It's getting better so may just be a matter of more training sessions. But if she's very close to her target (ie. stick), she will pick it up first before downing. How do you correct this if the dog is off leashed and far away from you? I've started ecollar so that helps with timing a lot but want to see if there are non-ecollar way to train this.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts anyone have on this.

And to the topic - Kira has a very very sweet looking face.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Did you say "wait"?

I would have made the dog sit or down, then throw, then release/command for retrieve (but get the retrieve.. the dog anticipated another stick being thrown and didn't bother to bring the one it had back). I wouldn't say "closer", i'd say "no, front". otherwise the dog isn't learning what a front really is. I'd also use a platform to get the front positioning close enough and not crooked.

As far as your commands. Your praise didn't sound like praise. The dog needs an energetic praise.. if you had said "excellent" like a prosac'ed overdosed idiot, she'd probably have a) come back faster, b) the proper front will be easier to get, and c) not lowered in drive. I'd also keep the second stick out of view. You don't want it moving around while you command.

I wouldn't call the dog back, down them, or otherwise mess with them when they are going to get the stick often... *maybe* 10% of the time. Otherwise the dog will get less and less enthusiastic about getting the stick and more and more trying to anticipate you giving a command.

WHat are your training goals? IPO? Some other sport? Just for fun?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not sure I totally get the question (or the goal) but I do a lot of training where instead of luring the dog (food in hand, holding a ball on my shoulder) I'm deliberately showing the dog what they want, putting it where they know it is, and making them do what *I* say first. So with Nikon this would be doing a little teasing/loading him up for the ball, then I drop the ball on the ground and do stuff like heel around it, even walk over it. When I'm satisfied with the intensity and attention I mark and release him to go get the toy.

In the formal retrieves I want fast, powerful retrieves so I'm more careful about how I do things i training. Normally I work on the impulse control (waiting in basic position for the retrieve command) separate from the actual retrieving, so I don't do many retrieves where I throw the dumbbell and then make the dog wait longer or do other stuff before retrieving. I say this because I've never had my dog leave me early in trial but I did have one instance where I had to give him a second retrieve command.

Whatever you do, just be sure to always mix it up and not unintentionally pattern train behaviors or anticipation that you don't want.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[quote=Wild Wolf;2647818]
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Originally Posted by Anthony8858 View Post

I do this. I ask for obedience, give the command to wait, throw the ball, release Hunter, and command a "platz" half way to the ball. He has very high ball/toy drive so this type of proofing gives me the confidence to have him off leash.

At first, the second he dropped I would release him again to take the ball - his reward for dropping immediately. Over time I added time and made him wait a few minutes before he could pursue the ball. Sometimes I ask for him to return to me, give me focused heeling, then release him to the ball afterwards.

This paid off for me. He can be far away from me and will drop on command. He has done so several times when it was necessary. A huge group of people on a trail on bikes, had him drop to the side and wait for me. Chasing a bunny towards a street while playing in a field, had him drop and then come back to me. It pays off.
Not directed at your dog, but same exercise. If the dog has a tendency to break the down in this case, you can also walk up to the dog into a basic position and either release from there, or sit them and then release.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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[quote=Anthony8858;2647840]
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Originally Posted by Wild Wolf View Post

This type of "proofing" is what I'm striving for. I just don't know the proper methods for teaching her.
#1, only ask for a down when the dog is in her highest state of drive to go get the ball... if she's "trotting" out or paying attention to you, let her get it and bring it back on those fetches.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
Did you say "wait"?

I would have made the dog sit or down, then throw, then release/command for retrieve (but get the retrieve.. the dog anticipated another stick being thrown and didn't bother to bring the one it had back). I wouldn't say "closer", i'd say "no, front". otherwise the dog isn't learning what a front really is. I'd also use a platform to get the front positioning close enough and not crooked.

As far as your commands. Your praise didn't sound like praise. The dog needs an energetic praise.. if you had said "excellent" like a prosac'ed overdosed idiot, she'd probably have a) come back faster, b) the proper front will be easier to get, and c) not lowered in drive. I'd also keep the second stick out of view. You don't want it moving around while you command.

I wouldn't call the dog back, down them, or otherwise mess with them when they are going to get the stick often... *maybe* 10% of the time. Otherwise the dog will get less and less enthusiastic about getting the stick and more and more trying to anticipate you giving a command.

WHat are your training goals? IPO? Some other sport? Just for fun?
This is a perfect example of an amateur really not knowing what he's doing. I know she's receptive to training, so I just throw some commands in there for the sake having some control over her actions.

I wasn't too entusiastic verbally, but felt the "reward" was her stick and tug on it.

I would like to learn how to and what to say when:

1) I want her to stop and drop (down) on a send away

2) I want her to drop on command if she happens to be somewhere, and maybe some kids startle her on a bike or jog. I'd want to be able to down her from a distance.

These are just a couple of things I need to learn how to teach.
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