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Please critique this training exercise

6K views 54 replies 14 participants last post by  Anthony8858 
#1 · (Edited)
Every time we have our playtime, I try to throw some form of command enforcement exercise. Whether it's a random "wait", or a random heel.

In this case, Kira was retreiving her fetch in anticipation of me throwing the stick in my hand. I surprised her with a "wait" command.

Since I don't know anything about proper training, I was wonder what I could add to this?
She will stop and "wait" whether she's running to or from me. I want to strengthen this under different conditions, but I'm not sure what to add to this.

Suggestions welcomed.

 
#6 ·
Did you say "wait"?

I would have made the dog sit or down, then throw, then release/command for retrieve (but get the retrieve.. the dog anticipated another stick being thrown and didn't bother to bring the one it had back). I wouldn't say "closer", i'd say "no, front". otherwise the dog isn't learning what a front really is. I'd also use a platform to get the front positioning close enough and not crooked.

As far as your commands. Your praise didn't sound like praise. The dog needs an energetic praise.. if you had said "excellent" like a prosac'ed overdosed idiot, she'd probably have a) come back faster, b) the proper front will be easier to get, and c) not lowered in drive. I'd also keep the second stick out of view. You don't want it moving around while you command.

I wouldn't call the dog back, down them, or otherwise mess with them when they are going to get the stick often... *maybe* 10% of the time. Otherwise the dog will get less and less enthusiastic about getting the stick and more and more trying to anticipate you giving a command.

WHat are your training goals? IPO? Some other sport? Just for fun?
 
#10 ·
Did you say "wait"?

I would have made the dog sit or down, then throw, then release/command for retrieve (but get the retrieve.. the dog anticipated another stick being thrown and didn't bother to bring the one it had back). I wouldn't say "closer", i'd say "no, front". otherwise the dog isn't learning what a front really is. I'd also use a platform to get the front positioning close enough and not crooked.

As far as your commands. Your praise didn't sound like praise. The dog needs an energetic praise.. if you had said "excellent" like a prosac'ed overdosed idiot, she'd probably have a) come back faster, b) the proper front will be easier to get, and c) not lowered in drive. I'd also keep the second stick out of view. You don't want it moving around while you command.

I wouldn't call the dog back, down them, or otherwise mess with them when they are going to get the stick often... *maybe* 10% of the time. Otherwise the dog will get less and less enthusiastic about getting the stick and more and more trying to anticipate you giving a command.

WHat are your training goals? IPO? Some other sport? Just for fun?
This is a perfect example of an amateur really not knowing what he's doing. I know she's receptive to training, so I just throw some commands in there for the sake having some control over her actions.

I wasn't too entusiastic verbally, but felt the "reward" was her stick and tug on it.

I would like to learn how to and what to say when:

1) I want her to stop and drop (down) on a send away

2) I want her to drop on command if she happens to be somewhere, and maybe some kids startle her on a bike or jog. I'd want to be able to down her from a distance.

These are just a couple of things I need to learn how to teach.
 
#7 ·
I'm not sure I totally get the question (or the goal) but I do a lot of training where instead of luring the dog (food in hand, holding a ball on my shoulder) I'm deliberately showing the dog what they want, putting it where they know it is, and making them do what *I* say first. So with Nikon this would be doing a little teasing/loading him up for the ball, then I drop the ball on the ground and do stuff like heel around it, even walk over it. When I'm satisfied with the intensity and attention I mark and release him to go get the toy.

In the formal retrieves I want fast, powerful retrieves so I'm more careful about how I do things i training. Normally I work on the impulse control (waiting in basic position for the retrieve command) separate from the actual retrieving, so I don't do many retrieves where I throw the dumbbell and then make the dog wait longer or do other stuff before retrieving. I say this because I've never had my dog leave me early in trial but I did have one instance where I had to give him a second retrieve command.

Whatever you do, just be sure to always mix it up and not unintentionally pattern train behaviors or anticipation that you don't want.
 
#11 ·
I'm not sure I totally get the question (or the goal) but I do a lot of training where instead of luring the dog (food in hand, holding a ball on my shoulder) I'm deliberately showing the dog what they want, putting it where they know it is, and making them do what *I* say first. So with Nikon this would be doing a little teasing/loading him up for the ball, then I drop the ball on the ground and do stuff like heel around it, even walk over it. When I'm satisfied with the intensity and attention I mark and release him to go get the toy.

In the formal retrieves I want fast, powerful retrieves so I'm more careful about how I do things i training. Normally I work on the impulse control (waiting in basic position for the retrieve command) separate from the actual retrieving, so I don't do many retrieves where I throw the dumbbell and then make the dog wait longer or do other stuff before retrieving. I say this because I've never had my dog leave me early in trial but I did have one instance where I had to give him a second retrieve command.

Whatever you do, just be sure to always mix it up and not unintentionally pattern train behaviors or anticipation that you don't want.
I'm not gonna comment on your comment, because I recognize so many errors in my approach. It does get frustrating for me.

HOWEVER, I do want to say that I can't stop looking at your avatar. That dog is so stunning. :)
 
#14 ·
I'm not looking for trial-type training. I just want to have full control of my dog, in the event of an "siutation". I want a solid recall, and down from any distance. I want to be able to call her off if she goes into prey mode, and she's running towards a street.

Carmen, you know her history as well as anyone.... Imagine me playing with her in an open field (like in the video). There's always a chance that someone could come walking from over the hills with a dog off leash. I want to be 100%, that I can call her off, and have her come to me without hesitation.

THAT'S what I want..
 
#16 ·
First I taught the platz (down) and practiced it from different distances from the dog. Later I introduced the command during the send away of the retrieve. I don't do it very often. Only when the dog is very amped.

OK.... This is something I had some trouble with.
How do I enforce a down, with a ramped up dog on a send away?

She's obviously in overdrive, and not looking at me
 
#18 ·
How do I enforce a down, with a ramped up dog on a send away?

that is what I mean exactly -- to get the ball she is ramped up , so you train her to wait until you release her - only then can she go .
French ring campagne training has call offs. You do not even know what judge is going to tell you. He may ask for you to send the dog , who needs to go out with convincing speed. The judge may want your dog to connect -- or he may test you and ask the dog to be called off . If you call off too soon , not in that zone of higest conflict (for the dog who is oh so close) then points against you , or if dog keeps on trucking and connects - against you. In other words the dog has to be controllable under maximum temptation - same thing with police service dogs - they need to be recalled - everytime they are sent does not guarantee a bite.
 
#22 ·
Let me back up and clarify something. My dog has ball drive but not crazy over the top ball drive. What gets him amped up is the game. His drive is increased during the engagemt with me. My in laws have a lab that I could not ever call off a retrieve. He is old though. And he is getting slow. Often while playing fetch with the two dogs together I have had to call my dog back so the older dog can have a chance to get the ball.
 
#27 ·
I see what you guys are saying. I'm training for emergency down by using my dog's toy drive to simulate a wildlife chase (closest chase-like event I can create myself) and I thought I'm suppose to work it up - start with no distraction, little distraction, then higher and higher distractions. Right now, I have difficulty getting a down in real life situations when she's on a chase for something and I understand it may just be a matter of more practice. Otherwise in practice, she is just not crisp enough but comply usually on the first "down" command. But it's the back-legs-down-then-right front leg-then-left front leg speed, like an old lady. I don't know how to get the faster down. She has no problem doing a fast down when we're doing tug training. Could be the drive factor but I want a fast down for emergency reasons to which she may not have the toy drive to help her.
 
#28 ·
Like I said... train at the level of *prey* drive... prey... where it is a challenge to get the behavior.

There are a lot of ways to get faster downs... some dogs just fight it. My male slides into a down.. its the only thing he does with "pop and flash".. Katya, my mal-like GSD, does everything super flashy, except her down. Its a step-step-step down... as of yet I have not gotten it to be a faster down.
 
#30 ·
I am glad to know I have been doing some things right, and glad to see how to go further. Rocket's training suffered a bit while I was working, and just today we started the down on send away again. He has gotten rusty. :)

I'm so glad you ask these questions Anthony. We all learn much from them!
 
#32 ·
I am glad to know I have been doing some things right, and glad to see how to go further. Rocket's training suffered a bit while I was working, and just today we started the down on send away again. He has gotten rusty. :)

I'm so glad you ask these questions Anthony. We all learn much from them!




Well, thank you :)

I'm glad everyone else it learning. I'm not getting it at all.
 
#31 ·
I have not even got this far....She is told to wait, then I throw whatever it is, then tell her to get it. For emergency situations I use an emergency word and she immediately responds and comes back to me. When I start working on the downs in the middle of a recall I think the long line is a great idea.
 
#35 ·
i'll throw something and let my dog bring it back to me. then
i'll throw his toy and as he approaches the toy i'll call him back.
on his way back i'll stop him, call him to me and make him stop again.
then i'll call him to me, make him stop and drop the toy. if my GF is there
i'll have him take the toy to her. i'll mix in stop, drop it, come, sit, down.
i'll call him to me and before he gets to me make him stop and go back
and get the toy. i mix it up so he's not just retrieving. if we're playing
where there's a curb i'll throw the toy in the street. he stops at the curb.
i can throw his toy then we walk away from it. sometimes we'll walk far away from the toy and then i'll send him back to get the toy.
 
#42 ·
the things i incorporate during retrieving were done
individually. one thing at a time. i use a long line but
not always letting the dog reach the end of the line.
i folded the line down. i train in short sessions indoors,
outside and often.
 
#46 ·
Oh boy, could I use something step by step specific.

The books I've looked into all focus on basic obedience (sit, stay, etc). I'm not looking to do anything in particular, other than know that I have full control over my dog, and to give her a "job" and some mental stimulation every day.

I just want to give her something to look forward to, every day.
 
#49 ·
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