Rear end awareness- Critique?

[DJEtzel]

Took this video today of Frag doing perchwork, and I wanted some critique to see if I'm on the right track or messing anything up. It's taken this long to get him half-way used to the idea and offering it, before he would CONSTANTLY fall off the perch. Had to move from books up to coke cases as you can see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9tu6Tq_n4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9tu6Tq_n4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9tu6Tq_n4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9tu6Tq_n4

What I guess I may be a little confused at is how EXACTLY this helps with finding heel? Am I supposed to be commanding this with a verbal, or is it something he should pick up and realize to do (maneuver his butt) when we're in a heel?

As you can see, still fading the lure. Today was the first day I actually got him to maneuver around me and find heel with the lure, so I started fading right away and there are no treats in my hand for any of this, just an empty hand.

SO, am I doing this right?

eta- please ignore the barking doofus at the end and the clumsy German Shepherd whom cannot keep his feet on a box to save his life. Oh, and I'm sorry my butt's right there in everyone's face- didn't mean for that to happen!

[elisabeth_00117]

The only thing I would do differently is to ensure you are rewarding the behaviour you want - not after the fact.

As he is moving click or give a marker for that.

This is just an exercise to teach a dog to move his back end or that he has one!

It comes in handy with things like the flip finishes (from front position flipping to left into basic position) also when jumping over the retrieves/wall/agility courses.

I have been working on flip finishes with Stark (need a video because he is rockn' them!) and I totally believe that perch work helped.

[selzer]

I saw someone doing this with horses at the farm park. But then they got all four feet on the box.

[Jax08]

try something like a rubber feed tub from tractor supply. He's slipping off the box, not stepping off of it.

[DJEtzel]

Originally Posted by elisabeth_00117

The only thing I would do differently is to ensure you are rewarding the behaviour you want - not after the fact.

As he is moving click or give a marker for that.

This is just an exercise to teach a dog to move his back end or that he has one!

It comes in handy with things like the flip finishes (from front position flipping to left into basic position) also when jumping over the retrieves/wall/agility courses.

I have been working on flip finishes with Stark (need a video because he is rockn' them!) and I totally believe that perch work helped.

Alright. I have been doing both- marking for moving in the beginning and now marking for finding heel. Should I still be doing it the other way?

Originally Posted by Jax08

try something like a rubber feed tub from tractor supply. He's slipping off the box, not stepping off of it.

Well NOW he's slipping off of it because he's too excited, but he used to just get off it because he didn't realize what I wanted. A rubber tub would still be a good idea, he moves EVERYTHING else around and causes problems.

[FG167]

Originally Posted by DJEtzel

Alright. I have been doing both- marking for moving in the beginning and now marking for finding heel. Should I still be doing it the other way?

Well NOW he's slipping off of it because he's too excited, but he used to just get off it because he didn't realize what I wanted. A rubber tub would still be a good idea, he moves EVERYTHING else around and causes problems.

I also mark for both. However, now that he "gets" that he's supposed to stay on, the behavior has to continue for longer before he gets marked. I ONLY mark when he's in Front position, Side position or Fuss position - that way there are only three spots that are "good". Regardless of how we are moving.

I started marking for finding Fuss when I knew he had a good grasp of the two activities separately. I lured as well but it wasn't needed so I dropped it.

I think rubber and smaller would be good. It seemed to me that he was trying to be aware of not getting on it with his back feet too. I use a tub that is JUST big enough to hold Madix's front paws side by side. He has to be super precise to keep his feet on there. I am HOPING once we tie everything together that his finding heel position will be sharp and correct b/c he'll be keeping his front feet in relatively the same position while getting into heel. I have cut the bottom off another rubber tub and I'll be using that next week instead of a raised platform and then eventually will fade that out.

[elisabeth_00117]

Your still having to lure him in so I would continue to treat/reward until he "get's it". I noticed you had to side bump him too which indicates he isn't quite sure what you want yet - at least that's my take.

I agree a smaller, rubber or non-slip item would be best.

I personally like to mark the front first then work on basic position.

[elisabeth_00117]

Here's a good example:
YouTube - Laos Perch Work.mpg

[Jason L]

Agree with Falon. Since Frag is moving around the perch very nicely now, the next step would be to tighten up YOUR position. Basically for obedience: only front or heel. Either you stay in front of Frag or you stay in heel position. Also, if you are working from the heel position, then I would reward with your left hand (put the clicker in your right hand) and reward straight above his head - to enforce the heads up position. You are basically teaching/asking for attention heeling. The only difference is instead of moving ahead, you guys are moving in circle. So think of it as you are still heeling.

I have never done finding heel on the bucket. That actually sounds pretty difficult! I got Ike to the point where he can turn with me in heel position and front position, both clockwise and counterclockwise and that was pretty much the end of perch training for him. "Finding the left leg" exercise we did on the ground after he was "done" with the perch.

You guys are doing great. Frag is definitely getting "it"!

[Jason L]

Elisabeth, I have never seen Lynn's video before. That's really good!!!