The different types of Sit

[oranges81]

Sandy (11 month old JRT) heels beautifully on both my left and right side. BUT! When I slow down to a stop, she swings out and either does a front finish or sits on an angle. I can lure her in to the sit but she still sits on the angle.. It's like there's a magnet in her butt that's reacting badly with my leg. LOL!

Also I'm trying to teach her a left side swing... Like for Rally. Circling around the right to finish on the left in a sit.. It ain't happening.. I've got her on leash and am using food to lure her around. She'll get to my right hip then she refuses to move any further. I don't really want to drag her around by the neck but the food isn't working..

Any ideas??

[BJDimock]

My fidleco dogs have a tendency to swing as well. I teach them while standing next to a cabinet, counter or wall. If they try to swing, they simply hit the wall.
We teach a "come to heal" that is similar, although the entire movement is done on the left. (This teaches our dogs to walk into their harnesses.)
I have great success teaching the movement by stepping back with the foot the movement is executed on. It seems to start them in motion. (Lots of treats of course!!!)
When they get good at it, I simply no longer step back.

[oranges81]

I'll have to try heeling next to a wall..I tried stepping back but she just scooted her butt on the angle to keep up. Lol. She's to smart for her own good.

[BJDimock]

Yeah, have had a couple of those. On that note, when you forcefully place them into the correct swing position, and then reward them, it is amazing how quick the smart ones figure it out!
The heeling next to the wall has saved me a few times, especially with the ones who always want to keep eye contact. Believe it or not, less treats and more verbal encouragement seemed to work well for my fosters who swung out when sitting. (They stopped turning to me for treats!)

[oranges81]

I use alot of verbal praise when we're heeling then I treat at the end. I found with Sandy, if I treat during the heel then she figures the action is complete and she forges. Hmm.. I think I may need to find a larger wall thou to teach her the sit at the end. Lol

So I should physically place her a couple times in the spot I want her then treat for the proper placement?

[BJDimock]

I do. I find that my girls figure out really quick when I actually make them do the movement. I give the command, make them do the movement,(yes, sometimes I have to almost drag them through it) and when they reach the correct position and focus on me(even if its a split second) they get a Huge reward. (Lots of praise and a great treat.)
Try it a couple of times and see if it doesn't help.
After I give the original command, they get no voice, treat or attention from me until they hit the spot. I still go through the motions with a treat in my hand, but I will "drag" them around to the correct position.When they hit it, and look at me, I make them feel like they just saved the world!

[oranges81]

I'll have to give that a shot tomorrow. Actually I think I'll try that with both my girls.
At what point should I fade out treats for the heel? Like I said, she doesn't get it until the action is complete but I hold my arm in a certain way and I think she's responding to that as the hand motion for "Heel"

[BJDimock]

When my girls hit the movement every time, I start substituting voice for food. If you are talking about the heel without swinging (against the wall) Then for the first couple of times, I will give a reward, and then quickly fade out to voice, with the reward being every 3rd or 4th time in the beginning. I find that my girls who swing or sit on an angle are swinging to the treat. Giving the treat from the left hand helps too(something I have a hard time mastering) When the treat comes from my right hand, the dogs have a tendency to cross over to look for it.

[oranges81]

I give treats with both hands, depending on what side she's on.
So when starting out, I should be unpredictable with the dispensing of the treats so she doesn't break the movement until I say..

[BJDimock]

My dogs always work from the left because that is the side that Guides must be on. I have a horrible tendency to treat from the right, and my dogs pick up on that very quickly.(my dominate hand) I have to remind myself to treat from the left, so the dogs don't learn to cross over for their reward.(6 pups later, and I'm still making the mistake!)