Handling charging dogs?

[Martie]

Originally Posted By: SyaoransbearI see the word 'charge' everywhere in the forum, but I can't find a definition for it. What is a charging dog? Is it a dog that's just running towards you?

To me, charge means a loose dog is running toward you with a purpose - fast and likely barking. Whatever the purpose, it is a very disconcerting experience for the "chargee".

[Caledon]

Originally Posted By: SyaoransbearI see the word 'charge' everywhere in the forum, but I can't find a definition for it. What is a charging dog? Is it a dog that's just running towards you?

I was going to ask for a defination too!

To me a dog charging is a dog that approaches your dog and is fairly close, watches and then without a warning sound rushes into your dog and makes contact, (or if on leash would have made contact if the owenr doesn't pull it away) The stance of the dog is dominate and their chest is extended . My friend allows her Sheltie to do this, dispite me telling her not too.

I've had several dogs break away from their owners and approach Dakota at a run, but they did not appear dominate and just wanted to play. Some may not think there was a difference, but I've seen it.

Many years ago Murphy (English Setter) was approached by a growling GSD. The dog kept its' distance but I was concerned. I called animal control to see how I should handle that situation and they told me to never let go of the leash to allow my dog to run away (which she sould have). They said that this would just increase the prey drive of the attacking dog. Keeping your dog close to you and on a short leash is the way to go when it is just one dog, but several I don't have a clue.

[MrLeadFoot]

Martie,

I think Luther did quite well, given the situation. However, if it was me, I would have released Luther from his Sit if I saw those dogs charging over. Why? Because now Luther knows he only needs to sit until HE thinks he should get up, you know what I mean?

Now, I don't mean you should have necessarily let him off leash, especially if he is not solid on recall; I'm just pointing out that having a dog sit and stay in that particular situation is too much to ask of a dog, because he might have justifiably needed to defend himself. Now, if it was one dog, and you knew it's intent, that might have been to a different story, but 4 charging dogs, and with a history to boot?

Because I know that at this point, you now have to go back to working even harder to proof him, especially in a situation that even REMOTELY resembles what happpened, what you can take away from this is to take advantage of this unfortunate event by proofing him when you can see that he THINKS something like this is happening again, when it's not, you know what I mean? And, also work to obtain a solid recall, so that he DOESN'T experience this again, because if something similar happens again, and you can let him off leash, it changes the dynamics and perception on his part, does that make sense?

I say all this because from my experience, and I have plenty of it in this particular area, a GSD can handle his own for quite awhile with pretty much ANY dog. Let me share more:

When I was training high-level protection dogs fror a private security company, one of my regular drills for proofing solid obedience and self-control was to have two rows of handlers with dogs facing each other, forming an empty aisle between them. Each row was usually made up of 10 or more dogs sitting at heel.

One by one, each dog would have its turn to be walked at heel down the aisle. This was an advanced exercise, in that these dogs were already trained to protect to some extent by the time they participated in this gauntlet. While the majority of these dogs were GSDs and Dobermans, during my stint as a company trainer I also worked with different types including a Rottweiler here and there and even a Great Dane, at one point. At the time, I also had a male and female GSD, and a female Doberman of my own that regularly participated in the exercise, as well.

As you might expect, at first it was typically difficult for the dogs new to this exercise, both the ones walking the gauntlet and the ones sitting, but this is a very effective drill for proofing solid behaviors. Not to mention the confidence it builds in the dogs and their handlers as they walk within easy reach of twenty or more attack-trained dogs.

Periodically a sitting dog would break its heel and lunge at the walking dog. Of course, the point of the drill was to catch the offending dog in the act, but every so often a handler was caught off guard and the lunging dog would manage to grab hold of the walking dog.

Now, my male GSD was a big dog, and he had a short coat. Because he was large, he awakened the instinct of challenge in more than a few sitting dogs as he "walked the line". (Interestingly, it was almost always a Doberman that was the instigator, but that's a topic for a different forum.) I can't even tell you how many times he was grabbed by another dog. But you know what? He NEVER sustained an injury of any sort, even with a short coat. The first few times, he would turn to defend himself. But being that we were in such close range, the handlers could intervene within seconds anyway, so no harm was ever done.

After a few of these incidences, my male wouldn't even bat an eye when a dog lunged at him. Often, they would grab his neck, and all they got was a bunch of fur. He would just stand there.

Over the years, I noticed that the mere presence of my male GSD (presumably because of his size) spurned all kinds of attacks from all kinds of dogs, including pit bulls, even when we were just out and about. One time, he was staked out in front of one of my Aunt's houses and a loose pit bull came wandering down the street. He was actually on the other side of the street, but being the bully that he was, he sauntered across the street when he saw my restrained dog, and came over and picked a fight. I watched this whole thing unfold from a front window. The pit came over, and my dog thought he wanted to play. My dog was wagging his tail, even as the pit exhibited agressive behavior. At one point, the pit latched onto my dog's neck, obviously with malicious intent. Still, my dog did nothing.

When my dog finally had enough, all he did was turn his head (because his skin just stretched even though the pit still had a mouthful), completely engulf this dog's neck between his jaws and pin the pit to the ground. It was the most entertaining sight. A punk pit bull thinking he was all that, quickly realized he was just a punk. There he was on his back, crying like a baby, and all my dog did was hold him down for a few seconds. Once he submitted, my dog let him up, and he scampered away, tail between his legs. I walked out onto the porch, and my dog looked up at me with a smile on his face. I then praised and pet him.

So, I've seen many charging instances, or all sorts, in all kinds of situations. And, I have never seen a GSD sustain any injuries. They were bred to have an abundance of fur and hair to specifically protect their vital parts, because they are, first and foremost, protectors of herds.

Of course, I never let situations get out of hand, either. The moral of the story is that you really don't need to worry about a GSD when a fight breaks out. While an owner's first instinct is to jump in and protect their dog, and cast blame, you really don't need to. Just calmly intervene, if you can do so safely. You have more time to do something than you think because it's very difficult for another dog to get a hold of a GSD in a manner that will cause serious harm. Sure, if you let things go on, obviously anything can happen, but take comfort in the fact that you have enough time to, say, grab your garden hose, if you're in your own yard, and spray down the dogs in battle, or whatever you can think of.

Just don't panic. In fact, your calmness at such times is your best weapon, and conversely, you panicking, becoming frantic or excited will only serve to escalate the situation, because your dog will sense your heightened level, and can even mistake that by thinking he should fight harder to protect you.

Because I have experience in this area, and have a dog that's solid on recall, in your situation, I would have:

1) Released my dog immediately, as a leash will heighten a dog's sense to defend himself, as well as can actually tangle them up and cause damage.

2) Step in in a blocking manner, shouting loudly at the other dogs in a dominant tone.

3) If warranted, fight them off, using my legs first to kick them away, and any kind of stick if possible and necessary.

What I would try to refrain from doing is using my hand and arms in a melee, because that brings my face, head and neck closer to an attacking dog and it compromises my best appendages... well, my second best appendages!

The only time I would use my hands and arms is if I know can firmly grasp an attacking/charging dog's collar, if any, and overpower him; or, if the dog was attacking me directly and going for anything above my waist. And, if that's the case, then I would do anything and everything to put that dog down, because in that case, it's kill or be killed, so all bets are off.

[big_dog7777]

I will never EVER release my dog. EVER. Did I say EVER??? That is a wonderful way of opening the situation of a loose dog attacking up to interpretation... Did I lose control of my dog on a walk which created this whole mess? No thank you. My dog remains behind me and I handle the charging dog/dogs. Period. If the dog is close enough to connect to me or my dog, I'm already in survival mode. If you face this more than once, you need to carry pepper spray or a bat or a walking stick. If I seriously injur a charging dog the consequences are... NOTHING. I defended myself from an animal that has no rights. If my dog defends themselves then everything is open to the opinion of law.

[MrLeadFoot]

Yes, with one dog charging you have more options, and keeping your dog leashed is one of them.

Problem is that with 4 charging dogs, IF they were really coming in attack mode, you and your dog would indeed be in survival mode and would stand no chance if you were still holding him by the leash. Even if those dogs were only focused on your dog, you would severely hamper his chances of defending himself by keeping him tethered. And, if he had to jump and twist to defend himself against 4 dogs, that leash would surely tangle around him, and could possibly get him tied up, or worse, break limbs in such a situation.

But, like I said, I have alot of experience with this, and I have a dog that is solid on recall, so I can call my dog off at ANY time, even in a melee.

Of course, I would never call her off if she was in the midst of protecting herself for survival, because calling her off could jeopardize her well being, because she could turn her back on the attackers to heed my command, and that would simply not be fair to her.

Of course, that is only my opinion and my previous post was in response to the OPs original post, pertaining to the OP's particular situation. And, of course, to each his own.

[big_dog7777]

Recall is not my issue. I just never trust the interpretation of law to be fair. Here's to hoping nobody is put in a situation with four serious dogs charging. The trip to the ER would not be fun.

[MrLeadFoot]

I agree with your statement on the interpretation of law, especially if in a case of four charging dogs, because there's bound to be at least one that wouldn't survive, because we'd all be fighting for our lives then!

[sleachy]

I ask my dog for a "calming signal" by either asking her to sit or having her turn to the side. Of course, this isn't going to work with a reactive dog so you need to work on it so that your dog will listen to you and TRUST you in any circumstance.