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Old 12-22-2013, 12:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question How safe are Herbals and How do we know they work?

How safe are Herbals and How do we know they work?

Just wondering because my Vet wants me to put Zelda on Carprophen for her pain and she is only 1 year old. I think in general her recovery after exercise is quicker with the carprophen as im doing the week trial he wanted me to do, etc. But i am worried about the long term effects of carprophen on her body..
So someone suggest and i've researched some natural herbals, and most of them seem to have good reviews.
But a friend asked me how do i know if they are safe, sometimes they aren't even FDA approved. And I thought it was a good question, and i cant really seem to find an answer anywhere.. And also how do we know they work?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What about the things I recommended to you (in the pm you sent me)?

The safety of herbal products really depends. Some herbs are very powerful and can interact with other drugs and/or herbs. Others are very safe. And it also depends where they come from and who manufactures them.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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What particular herbals are you looking at? For pain/inflammation?
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow! Your dog is really young to have pain. I'm sorry you both have to go thru this.

Carprophen has some awful side effects, so I don't blame you for looking into something natural to help her.

Maybe you could see a holistic vet who is versed in Chinese Herbals or Western Herbals to put your mind at ease. I can send you a list of registered Holistic Vets in your state if you are interested.

Have you considered a Homeopathic Remedy such as Traumeel or Zeel?
TRAUMEEL: Inflammation of muscles, bone, soft tissue, tendon, ligaments, nerves.
Aconitum napellus
Arnica Montana, radix
Bellis perennis
Calendula officinalis
Chamomilla
Echiacea Agustifolia
Echinacea purpurea
Hammamelis virginiana
Herpar Sulphuris calcareum
Hypericum perforatum
Mercurius solubilis
Millefolium
Symphytum officianale

ZEEL: Degenerative conditions like arthritis, spondylitis, disc disease.
Ingredients:
Arnica montana, radix (mountain arnica)
Dulcamara (bittersweet)
Rhus toxicodendron (poison oak)
Sanguinaria canadensis (blood root)
Symphytum officinale (comfrey)
Sulphur (sulphur)
(alpha)-Lipoicum acid (thioctic acid)
Coenzyme A (coenzyme A)
Nadidum (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide)
Natrum oxalaceticum (sodium oxalacetate)
Cartilago suis (porcine cartilage)
Embryo totalis suis (porcine embryo)
Funiculus umbilicalis suis (porcine umbilical cord)
Placenta suis (porcine placenta)


Traumeel: Traumeel Oral Drops - Traumeel
Zeel: In a recent clinical study, Zeel was found to be as effective as COX 2 inhibitor. http://www.heel.com/upload/Zeel_GP_F...v2008_7313.pdf

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Old 12-22-2013, 05:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I've been using herbs for kane with his epilepsy and herbs for source vitamins and never had issues they are more safe than most drugs as some drugs cause liver and kidney damage . You just have to read up on that herb see if any side effects but you'd be amazed how many pet owners are going herbal due to fact less harmfull to animals and humans I swear by them been using herbs for 6 years now you can only try

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Old 12-22-2013, 05:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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They don't need be fda approved cause herbs don't come under drug licenses as there something that comes from the natural earth not man made

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Old 12-22-2013, 06:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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As well, carprophen was FDA approved for human's and later pulled "voluntarily" by Pfizer. It went to vet medicine exclusively. I read somewhere that Pfizer was going to loose FDA approval if they didn't make it CLEAR about the adverse reactions.


Main Rimadyl page warning...right under all the happy doggies who have been restored to pain free life

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION: RIMADYL is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication available only by prescription through your veterinarian. As with other NSAID-class medications, signs of RIMADYL intolerance may include appetite loss, vomiting and diarrhea, which could indicate side effects involving the digestive tract, liver or kidneys. Some of these side effects may occur without warning and, in rare situations may be serious, resulting in hospitalization or even death. If these signs occur, discontinue RIMADYL therapy and consult your veterinarian. Refer to the Full Prescribing Information for complete details.

https://www.rimadyl.com/
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I second the Traumheel or Zeel.. Also check with a holistic vet
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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if my dog was having pain after exercising i would stop the exercise.
does your Vet know what's causing the pain or is he masking the pain
with drugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
How safe are Herbals and How do we know they work?

Just wondering because my Vet wants me to put Zelda on Carprophen for her pain and she is only 1 year old.

>>>>>I think in general her recovery after exercise is quicker with the carprophen<<<<<

as im doing the week trial he wanted me to do, etc. But i am worried about the long term effects of carprophen on her body..
So someone suggest and i've researched some natural herbals, and most of them seem to have good reviews.
But a friend asked me how do i know if they are safe, sometimes they aren't even FDA approved. And I thought it was a good question, and i cant really seem to find an answer anywhere.. And also how do we know they work?
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowWowMeow View Post
What about the things I recommended to you (in the pm you sent me)?

The safety of herbal products really depends. Some herbs are very powerful and can interact with other drugs and/or herbs. Others are very safe. And it also depends where they come from and who manufactures them.
Ya, If i go with a herbal for pain, i will probably go with one with good reviews and the ones you suggested seem to have good reviews It's just when i look up the suggestions i want to be sure what i am giving her will give no long term side effects. In general.. i do believe herbals are safer than prescription medications.
That is what I am concerned about, i read an article how its not as regulated, how do we know what is truly in it and where its coming from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestep View Post
What particular herbals are you looking at? For pain/inflammation?
Some of the ones i was looking into were "Get-up and Go" and "Canine Pain Plus" and my problem is, this is w hole new world for me really and i don't know anything about it or what to look for, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto2GSDs View Post
Wow! Your dog is really young to have pain. I'm sorry you both have to go thru this.

Carprophen has some awful side effects, so I don't blame you for looking into something natural to help her.

Maybe you could see a holistic vet who is versed in Chinese Herbals or Western Herbals to put your mind at ease. I can send you a list of registered Holistic Vets in your state if you are interested.

Have you considered a Homeopathic Remedy such as Traumeel or Zeel?
TRAUMEEL: Inflammation of muscles, bone, soft tissue, tendon, ligaments, nerves.
Aconitum napellus
Arnica Montana, radix
Bellis perennis
Calendula officinalis
Chamomilla
Echiacea Agustifolia
Echinacea purpurea
Hammamelis virginiana
Herpar Sulphuris calcareum
Hypericum perforatum
Mercurius solubilis
Millefolium
Symphytum officianale

ZEEL: Degenerative conditions like arthritis, spondylitis, disc disease.
Ingredients:
Arnica montana, radix (mountain arnica)
Dulcamara (bittersweet)
Rhus toxicodendron (poison oak)
Sanguinaria canadensis (blood root)
Symphytum officinale (comfrey)
Sulphur (sulphur)
(alpha)-Lipoicum acid (thioctic acid)
Coenzyme A (coenzyme A)
Nadidum (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide)
Natrum oxalaceticum (sodium oxalacetate)
Cartilago suis (porcine cartilage)
Embryo totalis suis (porcine embryo)
Funiculus umbilicalis suis (porcine umbilical cord)
Placenta suis (porcine placenta)


Traumeel: Traumeel Oral Drops - Traumeel
Zeel: In a recent clinical study, Zeel was found to be as effective as COX 2 inhibitor. http://www.heel.com/upload/Zeel_GP_F...v2008_7313.pdf

Moms
Thanks for the sympathy, i also feel very bad for her for being so young and being in pain like that, i am mostly worried a few years down the road even she will act like a complete old lady dog. That is what i want to stay away from. Build up muscle, have her good supplements (which i think i do), and giving her some pain meds to help with quick recovery.
Honestly, i am willing to do whatever is safe and works. If its a little pricey, i can probably manage. But i just want it to be safe on her body and that we see a change, and it doesn't have to happen fast like with most medications.
I've never been the "natural" type but am starting to lean that way a lot more.
It's just the question if its safe was not something i could answer myself, which meant i needed answers and to do research.. And i am still not sure if anyone truly knows?
There is a great holistic Vet i know, he actually use to work at where i work at, but started his own place called Qi vet. He is really great. I do however have an employees discount where i work and mostly want to stick with the animal hospital where i work because of that.. But if i do ever stop working at the Vet, than i will go to the holistic Vet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah1366 View Post
I've been using herbs for kane with his epilepsy and herbs for source vitamins and never had issues they are more safe than most drugs as some drugs cause liver and kidney damage . You just have to read up on that herb see if any side effects but you'd be amazed how many pet owners are going herbal due to fact less harmfull to animals and humans I swear by them been using herbs for 6 years now you can only try

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Glad you found something for your dog that works! And i will do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah1366 View Post
They don't need be fda approved cause herbs don't come under drug licenses as there something that comes from the natural earth not man made

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Thats true, and even FDA approved can be proven dangerous later. But it still doesn't prove that herbals are safe because they come from earth or if it truly works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBytes View Post
As well, carprophen was FDA approved for human's and later pulled "voluntarily" by Pfizer. It went to vet medicine exclusively. I read somewhere that Pfizer was going to loose FDA approval if they didn't make it CLEAR about the adverse reactions.


Main Rimadyl page warning...right under all the happy doggies who have been restored to pain free life

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION: RIMADYL is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication available only by prescription through your veterinarian. As with other NSAID-class medications, signs of RIMADYL intolerance may include appetite loss, vomiting and diarrhea, which could indicate side effects involving the digestive tract, liver or kidneys. Some of these side effects may occur without warning and, in rare situations may be serious, resulting in hospitalization or even death. If these signs occur, discontinue RIMADYL therapy and consult your veterinarian. Refer to the Full Prescribing Information for complete details.

https://www.rimadyl.com/
Wow, thanks for sharing that.. that is very scary actually especially since when i asked about it, my vet said we would have to do blood work, but that he thought it was safe in general long term. But being that blood work has to be done, it kind of is a red flag right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
I second the Traumheel or Zeel.. Also check with a holistic vet
think it would be a bad idea to have two vets? I think it would be low.. to have one vet advice me in something and have the other vet do it because it will be at least half price. Becase im also wondering if i can do a RAW diet with Zelda that will help her allergies. I know the Qi Vet is into Raw. Because the duck and potato and the other venison and potato prescription diet isn't working well if at all. And i been doing it for weeks. She is less itchy.. But still very itchy. And she is also on clariton and benedryl for her itchiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiedad View Post
if my dog was having pain after exercising i would stop the exercise.
does your Vet know what's causing the pain or is he masking the pain
with drugs?
Well she has HD. And he said to let her go on her own terms. So for instance to let her off leash and let her run as much as she wants and she will be done by laying down, which is true i guess she knows when she needs to rest. Because less than 10-15 minutes she is done. It use to be under minutes before i started her on supplements. So clearly, the supplements are working or and she is building muscle. But two of my vets said that i shouldn't necessarily stop her from running, just let her do what she wants in moderation. So it doesn't happen everyday.



It's defiantly really difficult when people are telling me complete opposite things when all i want to do is what is safest and best for my dog. But its also great because i dont want to be blind to the situation and just do what one person says.
But i am really learning towards going holistic with almost everything.
But then there was the financial problem..


heres a picture of her, she is a snow girl!
Attached Thumbnails
How safe are Herbals and How do we know they work?-zelda-snow.jpg  
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