Anybody skip the puppy vaccine series? If so, what do I need to have on hand in case - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-09-2013, 05:52 AM   #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Anubis_Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin4321 View Post
You're in the holistic subforum. No offense to you as a person, but what you just told me is my personal equivalent of a nurse or doctor telling me that 1 in 5 men (or whatever the number is now) develop prostate cancer. And If I get it I have only a 20% chance of survival even with all the beat treatments.

If my doc told me that I'd say, see ya later. Because I know how to "beat" cancer and I know my odds are better walking out that door than receiving western treatments. The same goes for the vet imo. I have no faith in a vet that says science diet is the best kibble out there. Id rather risk my pup getting a "parasite" (according to him) with raw food. Raw btw has saved my other dogs lives.

Now I thank you for sharing your experience, but your credentials mean nothing to me. If you wanna talk pet owner to pet owner, ill put more weight to that.

That's rather naive, no offense. A little rude. And rather infuriating because we SEE the suffering that happens! Especially a vaccine with little reaction because it doesn't contain the adjuvants others do. This isn't a doctor quoting you statistics to change your mind. It's an experienced person telling you what REALLY happens. Why you should NOT skip puppy vaccines.

I didn't do most adult vaccines. But I sure do puppy vaccines. If you don't, you better have 2000 $-5000 $+ on hand to treat any of the contagious diseases your young unvaccinated pup might catch.

I personally have never seen a parvo positive that had a full round of puppy vaccines. I have had coworkers who have but its rare.

Before you think I'm some medical nut that does everything by the book - I DON'T do bordetella. I do minimal distemper/lepto/rabies every 3 years because I work in the field, my dogs come to work with, and have obvious high exposure. I DON'T recommend that vaccine schedule to everyone, simply rabies by law because it is NOT a vaccine to mess with. I feed a raw diet. I don't support Hills or Royal Canin AT ALL. I 120% tell people to do puppy vaccines because it is so FOOLISH not to. Even the experienced breeders on here who are VERY cautious about vaccination recommend it!

Let me tell you some of my recent experiences in order. We are angry because when it gets too tough for people, and they don't have the finances to continue treatment, and haven't formed a strong enough bond that they can stand to be present during euthanasia, we are the ones holding their puppies in the back as we euthanize them and watch them die:

Parvo both of them - one on left died. No vaccine

Parvo - 1 vaccine at 7 weeks from breeder. Died.

Lepto - confirmed through bw - no vx, euthanized

Litter brought in by breeder @ 7 weeks, all but 1 parvo positive. 5 out of the 8 died. No vaccines



Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Attached Thumbnails
Anybody skip the puppy vaccine series? If so, what do I need to have on hand in case -1370771362456.jpg   Anybody skip the puppy vaccine series? If so, what do I need to have on hand in case -1370771380152.jpg   Anybody skip the puppy vaccine series? If so, what do I need to have on hand in case -1370771405014.jpg   Anybody skip the puppy vaccine series? If so, what do I need to have on hand in case -1370771489807.jpg  
__________________
~Emergency Vet Tech

Berlin vom Spartanville 1/13/13
Zeke 5/25/07
Luther 2008 - 7/23/12

"Take this trouble from me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." Max Von Stephanitz

Last edited by Anubis_Star; 06-09-2013 at 05:59 AM.
Anubis_Star is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
GatorBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 3,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPF View Post
Gatorbytes: You also may have not read the whole article before you posted:

"These studies do not show whether there was a true cause-and-effect relationship between seasonal flu vaccination and subsequent pH1N1 illness (as might occur if, for example, the seasonal vaccine modified the immune response to pH1N1), or whether the observed association was not a result of vaccination, but was instead due to differences in some unidentified factor(s) among the groups being studied.

It is much easier though for anti vacc people to pick and choose passages that suit pre determined conclusions.

I did read it - and that is why I included in the quote ~ the answer remains: "possibly."
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown
GatorBytes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #33 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
GatorBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 3,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPF View Post
Gatorbytes: You also may have not read the whole article before you posted:

"These studies do not show whether there was a true cause-and-effect relationship between seasonal flu vaccination and subsequent pH1N1 illness (as might occur if, for example, the seasonal vaccine modified the immune response to pH1N1), or whether the observed association was not a result of vaccination, but was instead due to differences in some unidentified factor(s) among the groups being studied.

It is much easier though for anti vacc people to pick and choose passages that suit pre determined conclusions.
Which concludes the argument that vaccines are perfectly safe - it is ALL about the individual, whether it be man or dog
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown
GatorBytes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #34 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
GatorBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 3,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPF View Post
stick you head in the sand and pick out stories that support your cause. I could post thousands of PEER REVIEWED articles that support that fact that vaccines are safe and you would still come up with excuses not to do the right thing. Its frustrating, but I hope that by posting in forums like this that others see that the anti vacc people don't have a leg to stand on. My dog and everyone elses will be healthier that way.
1) That is just rude

2) How about picking out just one!
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown
GatorBytes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 11:11 AM   #35 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 22,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin4321 View Post
My pup has had one round of shots from the breeder. Distemper, parvo and adenovirus. I am personally against vaccines for many reasons I won't go into here but I have limited knowledge on puppy vaccines. I believe most of what I've read concerns adult dogs.

Has anybody only done one round of vaccines with their pup? I honestly am worried about vaccinosis occurring from over vaccination. Though I HATE this fear motive instilled into people about "if you don't vaccinate, she'll get sick and die!" Which I don't believe but is like to hear some experiences and get some preemptive naturals on hand, or even cures.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
I did the puppy series and a one year booster on Jax. Her titers at 4 years old came back high enough she should never need another vaccination.

the problem with only giving one shot out of the three is you don't know when the mother's immunity wears off so the vaccine can take over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin4321 View Post
Okay thanks. Follow up: wouldn't it be better to split them up a week or so apart? Distemper now and one week later parvo, then two more weeks and distemper again, then another week and finish the parvo? Ideally it would introduce the disease to the pup one at a time giving her a better chance to develop an immunity, rather than her immune system identifying both together as one.

And doesn't a balanced raw diet do really well to fight all the diseases and potential damage from vaccinations?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
While a balanced diet keeps the body strong, it will not fight off all diseases and damage from outside sources. It may help the body fight off diseases but it won't stop it from happening.

I think your best solution is to find a holistic/homeopathic vet and discuss this with them.

I know of one person who once stated on here they give one shot at a certain age and have never had an issue. However, giving vaccination is not a fear tactic or junk science. Diseases have been eradicated by vaccines. Small pox, polio... the issue, in my uneducated opinion, is not the use of vaccines but the over vaccination of our pets. Are there vaccines out there that cause other issues? Yes. The dead virus rabies vaccine has been shown to cause cancer in cats at the injection site due to the inflammation it causes whereas the MLV vaccine does not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin4321 View Post
... she has had slightly itchy skin as well. I'm afraid it was the vaccinosis ...

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Titer, if vet thinks you will get a true reading of immunity from the vaccination and not from mothers immunity, and discuss with a holistic/homeopathic vet for immunity level and treatment for vaccinosis.
__________________


~The strength of one's opinion should not exceed their knowledge on the matter~
Jax08 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
Zombie Queen Moderator
 
jocoyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 14,478
Default

We could all be nice to one another and provide information to help the others understand our viewpoints. ...... That would be so much nicer than the bickering and assuming anyone who has not bought into our "religion" about vaccinations is stupid.

I know before I have said I have an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, a graduate degree in chemistry, and know each vaccination comes with risks both short term and long term along with risks associated with not vaccinating.

Skepticism is a healthy thing. Dogmatism and closed-mindedness (both sides) is not. I would like to see the peer reviewed articles as well. I was shocked when I saw how weak the clinical data was to support efficacy claims for the lepto vaccine. [direct from Pfizer no less]

Michelle, that was not directed at you. Yours was a helpful post.
__________________
Nancy
www.scsarda.org

Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog
Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles
jocoyn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #37 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Anubis_Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBytes View Post
1) That is just rude

2) How about picking out just one!
I think you're right, there are indeed dangers to vaccines. I know we butt heads about rabies but really I'm all for doing minimal chemical injections into the body. It's like what I tell people who take medications and then get upset when they have a bad side effect - there are risks and side effects to EVERYTHING! If you think vaccines are completely safe you are very wrong. Adjuvants alone aren't regulated - many contain micro doses of mercury

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
__________________
~Emergency Vet Tech

Berlin vom Spartanville 1/13/13
Zeke 5/25/07
Luther 2008 - 7/23/12

"Take this trouble from me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." Max Von Stephanitz
Anubis_Star is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2013, 11:29 PM   #38 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Dustin4321's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
We could all be nice to one another and provide information to help the others understand our viewpoints. ...... That would be so much nicer than the bickering and assuming anyone who has not bought into our "religion" about vaccinations is stupid.

I know before I have said I have an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, a graduate degree in chemistry, and know each vaccination comes with risks both short term and long term along with risks associated with not vaccinating.

Skepticism is a healthy thing. Dogmatism and closed-mindedness (both sides) is not. I would like to see the peer reviewed articles as well. I was shocked when I saw how weak the clinical data was to support efficacy claims for the lepto vaccine. [direct from Pfizer no less]

Michelle, that was not directed at you. Yours was a helpful post.
Excellent point jocoyn. I started this thread not as much to be an anti vaccine thread and more of just hearing IF anyone actually did skip (yes or no) and to actually LEARN something that I've been having trouble finding. I don't know enough about dog diseases and how they work. Maybe I'm making an assumption when I think that, like a human, a dog on a healthy diet can handle any disease that is thrown at it. And no, I'm not naive or stupid, I know how to battle any disease with a correct diet. A strong immune system in humans can destroy cancer, schizophrenia, multiple sclerosis, and a lot more. So why would it not be the same for dogs?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Dustin4321 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2013, 12:22 AM   #39 (permalink)
Zombie Queen Moderator
 
jocoyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 14,478
Default

Well, look at it this way...indigenous peoples of the Americas were apparently a pretty healthy lot living a very natural life. Europeans came over with new diseases and, despite probably excellent immune systems honed by "selective breeding through natural selection" they died like flies from chickenpox, smallpox, measles and other European diseases.

I think a good immune system goes a long way but there are a LOT of stressors on that system such as environmental toxins, foods (even if you feed raw, what did that feed animal eat?), etc. .......

It depends on what risks you are willing to take.

I grew up knowing older kids who caught polio before the vaccine came out and went to schoo with heavy metal braces and crutches, but the vaccine came out the year I was born and not one of my classmates or their younger siblings got the disease. I also knew of kids were blinded by measles and personally knew one who was severely mentally handicapped due to the high fever......so.......I personally see a point in vaccines but think we do go overkill with them -- I think our immune systems WERE better back then. I did not know any kids with allergies, except for one who had asthma..but we still came down with all the childhood diseases (mumps, measles, rubella, scarlet fever, fifth, chicken pox) and got sick from them. Most recovered. Not all. I had a great uncle die from the measles, and an uncle from diptheria.

So to the dogs....well I assume a lot of parallels. Distemper and Parvo are certainly out there and they kill puppies. So is rabies. Lepto is also very scary and a lot of emerging tick borne diseases. Don't know where you draw the line.
__________________
Nancy
www.scsarda.org

Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog
Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles
jocoyn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2013, 05:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LisaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 17,351
Default

1 year boosters are not necessary (core vaccines), it depends on when the last puppy vaccine was and the state of the immune system at that time.

I chose to titer at a year instead of revax to determine if a booster was necessary (it wasn't, her last vax was at about 4 1/2 months old in the shelter, she probably did not have a puppy series).

If I had my choice, that would be it, but I suspect I will be titering to remain active in various dog activities.

It's a scary world out there if you think of all that things that they could be exposed to There's also a lot of bad vaccines out there too, with little transparency, and people in positions of authority giving advice that is not necessarily in the best interest of your pet (thinking of various medical professionals).
__________________

LisaT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com