HGH training...progress, videos, from the start

[phgsd]

Thanks gsdheeler...it looks so easy in the videos but we had our moments too! But Kessy is just so good and SMART that she is *usually* a pleasure to train. She is so drivey that sometimes it can get in the way - but now that she knows what she's doing it usually only helps.

And for tending sheep the GSD is great - but for guarding them, you wouldn't want to leave a GSD alone with the flock. They see the sheep as prey and would chase/injure/kill them. That's what a LGD is for - our trainer has a maremma and she is great at her job. She stays with the flock whenever it's not being tended. We do have a lot of coyotes and bears and she keeps them safe.

[anjum]

Originally Posted by phgsd

And for tending sheep the GSD is great - but for guarding them, you wouldn't want to leave a GSD alone with the flock. They see the sheep as prey and would chase/injure/kill them. That's what a LGD is for - our trainer has a maremma and she is great at her job. She stays with the flock whenever it's not being tended. We do have a lot of coyotes and bears and she keeps them safe.

Interesting! I was just wondering about this today - does the GSD act as a LGD also, or not. So you just answered that question. I'm kinda glad - gives me more breeds to have on my future farm (I really like LGDs too)

But do you know, does the LGD hang out when the flock's being tended by you & the GSD? Would the GSD be expected to take on a predator if one approached while tending the flock? Just curious.

[phgsd]

The LGD goes in a crate when the trainer is tending or when students are there. She is very dog aggressive, and although she is familiar with the trainer's dogs and doesn't act aggressively towards them, they don't mix. If you had a farm and the LGD saw your GSD's as part of the "pack" then I don't think there would be an issue.

I am not exactly sure if a GSD would be expected to take on a predator - but the protection test in the HGH trial is supposed to simulate the dog protecting the flock from a person. Immediately after you finish and close the pen, you leash your dog and a helper comes up to agitate the dog.

I did have an incident once, maybe a year ago, where Kessy did show that she would protect me while tending. It's kind of a long story - but the farm is pretty far back from the main road so it's very secluded. I was alone with the flock while the trainer was on the other end of the farm doing chores - which is a common setup for us since Kessy is trustworthy in the graze.
I was tending the sheep, and I noticed a man drive up and park nearby, and he got out of his car and walked over to me. That had never happened before and it made me a little nervous. He came over to me and Kessy ran up and sat right in front of him, she was VERY stiff and was watching him like a hawk. She didn't bark or growl, but I knew that if he made one wrong move she would have gone after him. I tried to send her along the border to keep patrolling - but she didn't want to leave him. And she is a dog who's totally stable and social around people - but maybe she could sense that I was nervous or that something was off, who knows. The guy explained that he was a "security" guy for the property owner (the farm is leased), and he patrols the various properties that the owner has. He eventually left without incident, and it wasn't a situation I've run into again, but I definitely feel safe with Kessy. I always wondered if maybe she's so focused on the sheep that she wouldn't notice a threat - but she's always watching!

If a bear or coyotes did approach/attack, I don't think I'd want Kessy to protect the flock, although I don't doubt that she would. But I wouldn't want to risk her being hurt or killed. And I think our trainer would feel the same way - he'd probably just go get his shotgun But in the "old" days I think that the situation probably would have been different.

[anjum]

Thank you for sharing that!

[krylos]

I haven't had time to read through this whole thread yet, just wanted to say thank you for posting the videos and the very good details on everything! I'm going to read through the whole thing as I have time.

I've been taking my dog Lana (Echo in my signature line) herding for a couple years now... not real regularly, more as a stress reliever from SchH training. She loves it and shows good instincts, but I don't have an HGH style trainer here. The place we go has up to around 50 sheep depending on the time of year. The sheep's owner only lives about 15 minutes from me which is a blessing, but doesn't own enough property to set up an HGH course for us. We could probably just barely shoehorn one in, but then again she doesn't have enough sheep. Catch 22. Anyway, this lady breeds and trains Bearded Collies, so a different style of herding. We passed our instinct test with flying colors. The trainer said she could take Lana out that weekend, without training, and put a basic title on her. I just don't know what I'm doing training-wise and your videos help a lot!

I've put 9 SchH3's on my "little girl" and I think this year I might put a little more focus on herding if I have the chance. I love being out there in nature with her and seeing her do what she was intended for. It blows my mind how much instinct remains in these dogs, even after all these years!

Thanks again for the videos!

[phgsd]

Thanks Krylos, I am very happy to hear that this thread is useful!! I don't know if it'd be possible but if you could set up a mini-HGH course up there on the smaller flock, you *might* be able go to an HGH club to trial. There is someone in CT that did that at our first trial, along with one of her students. They did come out to practice a few times, ahead of time, but the dogs were able to make it through the trial without issues from the flock size. They weren't perfect runs but both got their HGH's.

[TxRider]

Originally Posted by phgsd

Thanks Krylos, I am very happy to hear that this thread is useful!! I don't know if it'd be possible but if you could set up a mini-HGH course up there on the smaller flock, you *might* be able go to an HGH club to trial. There is someone in CT that did that at our first trial, along with one of her students. They did come out to practice a few times, ahead of time, but the dogs were able to make it through the trial without issues from the flock size. They weren't perfect runs but both got their HGH's.

Great thread, I certainly won't be titling my rescue gsd but I do plan to start my own small sheep operation and would love to have her working with me. This thread has been great to see.

I'd like to see more about how you first introduced your dog to the stock, seems like a very important part.

[phgsd]

In the first video you can see her first exposure to the sheep. Our first lessons were similar, allowing her to run along the netting.
Different dogs may need different approaches - Kessy is very high drive and super confident, and had a strong attraction to the sheep, so we did not really need to build her drive. For her it was about teaching her to run the border and teaching her control. With other dogs (and young dogs) you may need to build up their drive and confidence and not introduce any corrections or control for a while, and they may need encouragement, until they are more confident.

[TxRider]

Originally Posted by phgsd

In the first video you can see her first exposure to the sheep. Our first lessons were similar, allowing her to run along the netting.
Different dogs may need different approaches - Kessy is very high drive and super confident, and had a strong attraction to the sheep, so we did not really need to build her drive. For her it was about teaching her to run the border and teaching her control. With other dogs (and young dogs) you may need to build up their drive and confidence and not introduce any corrections or control for a while, and they may need encouragement, until they are more confident.

I won't need to build Hope's drive, it's more like I need to keep her from going too far and getting teeth on them. I'm sure if she encountered them on her own she would likely end up a sheep killer. I'm more concerned with how to keep her drive in check and teach her self control and not to bite them.

I don't know if I will be able to find help starting her off, I'll get a try at it and if it doesn't work out she'll just end up fenced away from them with no access.

Right now I'm working her up for more control with other prey like squirrels and deer other critters, and she pretty much goes into hyperdrive when she sees any livestock even when just seeing them in a pasture from my SUV's window so I have not allowed any close exposure yet, at least until I can get a handle on her and have her responding reliably to commands when there's a deer in sight and that switch turns on in her head.

I know she has a strong instinct, the determining factor is going to be on my end and how I handle her early exposure.