Schutzhund

Liesje · 06-17-2009, 11:49 AM

Are dogs in Schutzhund allowed to do herding? Is there some general rule against it?

GSDBESTK9 · 06-17-2009, 11:52 AM

I don't see why not?

**Chris Wild** · 06-17-2009, 11:53 AM

Not that I know of. Apparently not in German herding as there have been many dogs titled SchH and HGH. I've known SchH dogs to get HICs too, so doesn't seem AKC has a rule to outlaw them. But I'd suspect it would depend on the individual facility/instructor and their feelings on the whole "vicious attack dogs" thing.

mspiker03 · 06-17-2009, 12:39 PM

I don't know anyone that does SchH at my facility, but I do know someone who competes with her Mals in French Ring and does herding with them.

I would agree that it is an individual trainer/facility decision.

Liesje · 06-17-2009, 01:02 PM

Thanks. There is a local place that is full but I asked to be on the waiting list. I said Nikon does SchH but just wanted to prepare myself for any sort of "no, sorry" response. I could still do it with Coke or Kenya...

Liesje · 06-17-2009, 01:19 PM

oooo yay they said he can come!

Deejays_Owner · 06-17-2009, 03:10 PM

If you are going for AKC C-Course, it should not matter (TENDING).
But in A-Course, a SchH dog may not be alowed, because of the stick.
They use a stick/broom to keep the dog off the sheep, the
trainers are afraid of the SchH dogs going after them.

mspiker03 · 06-17-2009, 09:18 PM

I still use a crook when doing large flock (we aren't doing Course C, but an AHBA course which is similar to course C). The crook has other uses besides keeping the dog off the sheep. So, i guess from my experience, I wouldn't think that it would matter which course you were working if that was going to be the trainers reasoning for not wanting a SchH trained dog.

Liesje · 06-17-2009, 10:32 PM

My main concern is Nikon's level of prey drive, being VERY vocal about everything, and still being a buttheaded puppy who forgets self control some times. But, the trainer sounded very reasonable. I'm sure she's seen it all and she said this is a fine age to test him.

I'm taking Coke too....

Deejays_Owner · 06-18-2009, 09:04 AM

Lies

If you are just going out for a HIT, he will be fine, but training for both could be a problem.
AKC C-Course, this is the border style, like HGH (TENDING) 25-300 sheep.
We don't have this style up here, we have A-Course (Border Collie) 3 sheep.

When I took Deejay for his HIT @ 14 months he just loved it, he was a wild man.
The Judge said that he had very high drive & was 1st dog that did not respect her and turn off.
She was putting pressure on him to back him up, she tried hitting him with the paddle he grabbed it.
She stomped her feet and waved and yell at him to get him to back up, he just stood his ground (good for SchH).
He's no Border Collie thats for sure all GSD.
He got in a few good full grips on the neck and rump and ran the ass off a few sheep also.
He had one by the rump and held on, the Judge went nuts.

Told me we had to break him of griping the sheep so we never went back.

06-17-2009, 11:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Schutzhund Are dogs in Schutzhund allowed to do herding? Is there some general rule against it? __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

06-17-2009, 11:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
GSDBESTK9 Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 28,438	Re: Schutzhund I don't see why not? __________________ Carolina Johnson http://www.johnsonhaus.com http://www.carolinak9photography.com

06-17-2009, 11:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 12,604	Re: Schutzhund Not that I know of. Apparently not in German herding as there have been many dogs titled SchH and HGH. I've known SchH dogs to get HICs too, so doesn't seem AKC has a rule to outlaw them. But I'd suspect it would depend on the individual facility/instructor and their feelings on the whole "vicious attack dogs" thing. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels* Kaiser ~ SchH3 CGC TDI (HOT) Raven ~ SchH3 AWD2 PD1 P1 PA T1 UCD URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Della ~ SchHA TR1 PD1 P1 PA T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Wulf ~ SchH1 PD1 P1 T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Heidi ~ BH CD UCD RN URO1 (B/HOT) Jazz ~ Superpup In Training

06-17-2009, 12:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
mspiker03 Knighted Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So-Cal/Nor-Cal Posts: 2,420	Re: Schutzhund I don't know anyone that does SchH at my facility, but I do know someone who competes with her Mals in French Ring and does herding with them. I would agree that it is an individual trainer/facility decision. __________________ Levi vom Grunenfeld, CGC, HT, PT, HSAs, AHBA titles: RLFI (Ranch Large Flock), HTDI (Herding Trial Dog), HRDI (Herding Ranch Dog) Leyna vom Grunenfeld, HT, PT, HSAs Visit us at http://www.dogster.com/?435734

06-17-2009, 01:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Re: Schutzhund Thanks. There is a local place that is full but I asked to be on the waiting list. I said Nikon does SchH but just wanted to prepare myself for any sort of "no, sorry" response. I could still do it with Coke or Kenya... __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

06-17-2009, 01:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Re: Schutzhund oooo yay they said he can come! __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

06-17-2009, 03:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Deejays_Owner Knighted Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ont. Canada Posts: 3,360	Re: Schutzhund If you are going for AKC C-Course, it should not matter (TENDING). But in A-Course, a SchH dog may not be alowed, because of the stick. They use a stick/broom to keep the dog off the sheep, the trainers are afraid of the SchH dogs going after them. __________________ OTCH SG1 (CAN) Deejay von Hausnobilis UD HIT CGN ~A Well-Balanced Dog has Titles at Both Ends~ Little Raven Fayanna vom Wildhaus CGN

06-17-2009, 09:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
mspiker03 Knighted Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So-Cal/Nor-Cal Posts: 2,420	Re: Schutzhund I still use a crook when doing large flock (we aren't doing Course C, but an AHBA course which is similar to course C). The crook has other uses besides keeping the dog off the sheep. So, i guess from my experience, I wouldn't think that it would matter which course you were working if that was going to be the trainers reasoning for not wanting a SchH trained dog. __________________ Levi vom Grunenfeld, CGC, HT, PT, HSAs, AHBA titles: RLFI (Ranch Large Flock), HTDI (Herding Trial Dog), HRDI (Herding Ranch Dog) Leyna vom Grunenfeld, HT, PT, HSAs Visit us at http://www.dogster.com/?435734

06-17-2009, 10:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Re: Schutzhund My main concern is Nikon's level of prey drive, being VERY vocal about everything, and still being a buttheaded puppy who forgets self control some times. But, the trainer sounded very reasonable. I'm sure she's seen it all and she said this is a fine age to test him. I'm taking Coke too.... __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

06-18-2009, 09:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Deejays_Owner Knighted Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ont. Canada Posts: 3,360	Re: Schutzhund Lies If you are just going out for a HIT, he will be fine, but training for both could be a problem. AKC C-Course, this is the border style, like HGH (TENDING) 25-300 sheep. We don't have this style up here, we have A-Course (Border Collie) 3 sheep. When I took Deejay for his HIT @ 14 months he just loved it, he was a wild man. The Judge said that he had very high drive & was 1st dog that did not respect her and turn off. She was putting pressure on him to back him up, she tried hitting him with the paddle he grabbed it. She stomped her feet and waved and yell at him to get him to back up, he just stood his ground (good for SchH). He's no Border Collie thats for sure all GSD. He got in a few good full grips on the neck and rump and ran the ass off a few sheep also. He had one by the rump and held on, the Judge went nuts. Told me we had to break him of griping the sheep so we never went back. __________________ OTCH SG1 (CAN) Deejay von Hausnobilis UD HIT CGN ~A Well-Balanced Dog has Titles at Both Ends~ Little Raven Fayanna vom Wildhaus CGN

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