German Shepherds Forum banner

Update: Vomiting/Anorexia Every 12th Day

7K views 60 replies 7 participants last post by  carmspack 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I posted about my dog in this section several months ago when he was going through a really rough time of GI symptoms.

Long story short, he's doing much better (though nobody knows why) - he's eating and drinking, energetic, poops are good, no vomiting. EXCEPT for 24-48 hours of being sick with 10 or 11 days of being fine in between. He will stop eating, throw up a couple times (bile w/flecks of semi congealed blood) and be lethargic. It's very strange. I keep a journal of details about his food, exercise, poops, attitude, the weather... I cannot tie anything in to a 12-day cycle. Then, he gets over it and goes right back to his food and water. Usually, during the last few episodes of this, he has not had any diarrhea.

Could just be that he has some weird version of IBD? He's seen 3 vets including an internal medicine specialist who did ultrasounds; had extensive blood work (twice), fecal tests, Addison's test, urinalysis, insect-borne disease test, been treated with Metronidazole, Panacur, and Baytril, and nobody can really find anything medically wrong with him other than a slightly inflamed large intestine lining.

Anyway... @Thecowboysgirl I know your dog also seems to have "cycles" of feeling sick - I'm wondering if this is what's going on here. I think I'm going to try a new food - Nature's Variety Instinct and see if I can find a limited ingredient diet in case it is a food intolerance. Currently he eats Fromm Heartland Gold, mostly. He is also having a skin issue - red dots on his belly/armpits but doesn't seem itchy. I am thinking that is relevant, somehow. We have not done allergy testing.

He won't eat Sojos, Grandma Lucy's, THK, Stella and Chewy's... He's an EXTREMELY picky eater and I'm still in the process of figuring out what to feed him. He eats a probiotic/plant enzyme, and coconut oil. The occasional chunk of cheese, a scrambled egg, chicken breast here and there. 100% raw meat isn't possible right now due to freezer and money constraints but I'm open to ideas! I was so disappointed when he turned his nose up at every flavor of THK. :crying: We are supposed to be receiving samples of Ziwipeak at some point but who knows if they really sent them.

Thoughts, anyone? What would you do? It's so hard to troubleshoot to see if anything fixes the problem because it would involve waiting 2 weeks to see if he goes through the same cycle again. Sorry for the long-winded post but I really am at a loss at this point. My brain is totally fried with all the research I've done, and my bank account is empty after spending multiple thousands of $ trying to get some answers! I feel so helpless when he is sick.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Yes she definitely cycled. I could never tie it to anything environmental, it seemed to be gradually getting closer together to the point that it was about every two weeks.

What did they see on your dog's ultrasound? They always saw inflammation and thickening of her stomach, intestines ect, with the worst of it being her duodenum.

By the time we went to the big hospital they no longer saw any evidence of ulcers or hardly any inflammation in her stomach, and there was originally but she had had long term treatment for that.

Her internal medicine specialist said he thought the inflammation in the duodenum was what was causing her nausea, and he perscribed prednisone to knock that inflammation back in order to get her relief from the nausea.

It is my personal theory that she doesn't do well on kibble...food allergy, intolerance, or something in the additives and chemicals? Because she did so well on home cooked for so long. So I am still working on the diet angle, hoping that while the prednisone calms down the inflammation that was already there, I can get her eating something that does not cause the inflammation to reoccur and we can taper her all the way off of it.

She never had blood in vomit or stool though.
 
#4 ·
I don't think they ever told me what specific part of his intestine had a thicker lining and I was probably too freaked out to remember to ask. I really would like to get my dog off kibble but I haven't found a suitable alternative that he will eat, yet.

The strange thing is, my dog was always healthy, never had any issues and then one day out of the blue he was sick, and sick for about 2 weeks. Around 3 yrs 3 months old. That's why I thought it was food poisoning related, aflotoxin or something. Did your dog have a slow onset of symptoms, or just suddenly acutely sick one day??

Thus far, nobody has prescribed Prednisone and with him only showing symptoms 10-15% of the time, I am very hesitant to use as an experimental treatment.
 
#3 · (Edited)
@Liffey, prednisone is actually pretty inexpensive as far as all these treatments and supplements go. You might give it a try and see if it gets your dog some relief? I believe my vet said that's what they try when the person can't afford the endoscopy for further diagnostics, which in her case turned up nothing we didn't already know.

A previous allergy dog I had did have those red spots you described. Phytovet CK shampoo is the best thing I have ever tried for that.

That dog was allergic to dust mites so there was really no preventing it, she stayed on Termaril P long term

Let's see, what else. Prednisone side effects are horrible but one of them is hunger, my girl is a nightmare right now trying to eat anything in sight, even stuff that isn't food. *might* even help you with the pickiness?

I don't know what the ingredients are on the kibble but an elimination diet is theoretically no more money than what you have already spent. Have you read about elimination diets? I did one when my girl was young, I did a home cooked one, and she went on to have 6ish really good years

For the pickiness I can't help that much, my girl is a good eater and would eat even when she was sick, in fact sometimes a snack would help her feel better even in one of her mega drool sessions.

My other one, the Temaril P dog, would quit eating sometimes. Raw goat milk was the only thing that really made a difference there.
 
#5 ·
@Liffey, prednisone is actually pretty inexpensive as far as all these treatments and supplements go. You might give it a try and see if it gets your dog some relief? I believe my vet said that's what they try when the person can't afford the endoscopy for further diagnostics, which in her case turned up nothing we didn't already know.

A previous allergy dog I had did have those red spots you described. Phytovet CK shampoo is the best thing I have ever tried for that.

That dog was allergic to dust mites so there was really no preventing it, she stayed on Termaril P long term
Haha I just had my landlord come today to un-clog my bathtub drain... And I don't ever bathe my dog in there! Bathing him would be pretty much impossible - the red dots are on his belly and the part of his inner thigh where there is no hair - that area is soooo hard to reach even with an extendable shower head, which I don't have. If it's an allergy, I know I have to treat it from the inside, even if shampooing would give short term relief. But they don't bother him - he doesnt scratch.

I just ordered Nature's Variety Instinct limited ingredient turkey. 4.4 lb bag. See how he likes it... Turkey is a novel protein for him.
 
#6 ·
You can get wipes that have the same active ingredients, chlorhexidine and ketoconazole, and do that without an actual bath. I think what that dog had was staph, which I think can sort of opportunistically get them when they're down.

As for onset...no I would not say it started with an actual sickness either time. When she was young, she had some reoccuring diarrhea and some minor-ish skin problems. I did the blood allergy test, designed her a homemade elimination diet that I gradually grew up to a full diet.

After starting her back on kibble there was a very slow decline, which I can't say wasn't just because of her age.

At first her drooling episodes were every few months, then once a month, then twice a month, and random episodes of vomiting, diarrhea, loose stools with mucus, ect. She did have one bad sickness in the middle of all of it, with a fever, high white count, and pretty severe vomiting. She was treated with Baytril for that. But that was well into her illness already
 
#7 ·
The every 1.5-2 ish week cycle makes me think continued reinfection with hook worm. I see that you have done fecals but it just sounds like the life cycle of hooks.

Food... you've tried so many but not necessarily in a good systematic way so it's going to be hard to nail done if food is an issue. I see you are trying NV LID Turkey. Hope he likes it so you can stick with it long enough to figure this out.
 
#8 ·
Yeah I've looked into elimination diets but it's so freaking hard to get him to eat stuff for longer than like a week. He even got bored of chicken. So I'm going to see what happens with the turkey kibble. One thing I will say about food is that there's nothing that I've fed him that's immediately triggered him being sick. I thought about a preservative or added vitamin or mineral that he has some kind of aversion to...? If I could get him to stay with one food for longer than 2 weeks that would be great, but he is so finnicky. I thought he was going to eat THK Embark after 1 successful attempt but upon ordering 3 more samples he turned his nose up.

As far as hookworm/parasites... I could probably ask for another dose of Panacur? Actually, I think I looked and saw it's available OTC from valley vet supply. The weird thing is, he'll be sick for a short amount of time, and then get better quickly like nothing happened. I know fecal tests can be, and often are, wrong, or miss a lot.

I would also think IBD is sort of a slow-onset thing.

Just looked up hookworms symptoms:
Anemia
Pale gums
Weakness
Weight loss
Bloody diarrhea
Itchy paws
Poor growth
Death

Weight loss is the only one that he has had, but he is back up to a good weight of 85lb. Blood tests showed he's not anemic, his gums look good, he's playing like normal when he's not acutely sick, no blood in his stool (only in vomit), no itchy paws, he's 3.5 yrs old and actually started filling out about 6 months ago, and he's obviously not dead :grin2: Still worth looking into, I guess. Or other parasites. Would one dose of Panacur for 4 days not be enough to wipe out a serious infestation? I was worried about giardia as well.
 
#9 ·
My vet used Strongid-T to rid hooks in my girl. After a reinfection a couple months later I tired of paying vet prices and bought my own online. I did a lot of research and found a bottle of liquid (not prefilled paste tubes). The dosage is 1cc per 10lbs of body weight (which is what my vet gave) one time. For uncleared or heavy load a repeat dose is given in two weeks. Strongid doesn't cover whip or tape worms which Panacur does. But you only have to give it one dose for rounds and hooks which I liked.

I got mine here but you may find it elsewhere cheaper (it's been a year)
Pyrantel Pamoate Suspension for horses | Equine Pyrantel Pamoate

You may be right that it's just some sort of IBD. I hope the new diet helps. I just stinks that they can't tell us what is ailing them.
 
#10 ·
It's my understanding that the food thing isn't always immediate. So other than just stomach upset from a new food, you might not see a reaction immediately after feeding something even if that was the culprit.

I think I have been told it can take a month for symptoms to subside after starting an effective elimination diet.

I agree with whoever said what you are doing isn't systematic enough. I know you're in a predicament with a dog who doesn't want to eat and honestly I don't have a good solution to that...other than tough love, have you done that?

But the way to do it as I understand it is start with 1 novel meat, 1 novel carb, and feed that exclusively for one month before adding another ingredient. And no cheating. You have to read the ingredients on everything. No table scraps, no treats ect unless they are part of the diet. This is what I did with my girl back in the day
 
#11 ·
Was your dog ever on just duck......No other meat proteins in the mix?

I ask because in TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) Duck is a "cooling" protein. Meaning. cooling foods helps calm the inflammation upset in the body.


Instead of the turkey, Nature's VARIETY Instinct has a limited ingredient Duck formula. Instinct Grain-Free Limited Ingredient Kibble Dog Food - Duck | Instinct Pet Food

Petsmart and Petco sell Nature's Variety but different stores carry different varieties.

For me, Turkey is to close to Chicken and chicken is one of the biggest offenders of all, followed by grains.

Make sure that your dog doesn't get any other food or treats while on this "elimination diet". It will skew the results.

You’ll need a treat made with only 1 ingredient:
Treats can also skew results if they have any other ingredients than what your main food contains.

If you switch to duck, here are a few "Duck Only" treats:
PureBites Duck: 100% Pure USA Sourced & Made Duck Liver".
https://www.chewy.com/purebites-duck...d-dog/dp/35019

Bravo Duck Feet:
https://www.chewy.com/bravo-bonus-bites-duck-feet-dry/dp/43567

Orijen Free Run Duck Treats: https://www.chewy.com/orijen-free-run-duck-singles-freeze/dp/46205


Note that Nature's Variety does have a "Duck" treat BUT there are Egg Whites in it, so it would be defeating the purpose of not using any "chicken items".


Have you ever looked at her Heart Worm or Flea/Tick meds that you give/apply? Since they are usually given/applied every 4 weeks, the 2 week cycle may come into play here.

SIDE EFFECTS OF HEART WORM MEDS:
(petmd.com) some dogs may experience vomiting, diarrhea, or in-coordination. In the case of an allergic response to the heartworm medication, a dog may experience itching, hives, swelling of the face, or even seizures or shock.

SIDE EFFECTS OF FLEA/TICK MEDS:
(petmd.com) Allergic reactions -- hives, congestion, itching, extreme sensitivity, shock, respiratory distress, excessive (hyper) salivation, paw flicking, ear twitching, mild depression, vomiting, diarrhea, protracted vomiting and diarrhea, depression, incoordination, muscle tremors

Just a thought!


Moms :)
 
#12 ·
Oh man Liff, I feel for ya. I know how crazy it is going through and trying to dissect all the symptoms and the timelines with the notes, all while brainstorming the next plan of action. I really hope he does well on the NV kibble... when we started on it it took about 2-2.5 weeks before I could honestly see any changes in her(good, bad, otherwise). After the 3rd week it was clear that she was tolerating it well and improving so we have continued on with it. That's the hardest part with elimination, just takes time! And with poor Liffey being a picky eater I know it's made it rough on you trying to rule out food sensitivities when he won't really eat same type of food for too long.
Not really sure if this will help but here's what we did with Ghost when changing foods:
- first just offered the kibble dry, nothing added. Left it so she could graze if she wished and didn't hover around while she was eating(I didn't want her to get anxious)
- Second would either wet it a bit to see if she liked it better or add a bit of 'wet' topping (if Liffey does like the coconut oil maybe try it)
- third we introduced different toppings, (like you mentioned scrambled egg, ground turkey, anything Liffey likes!!) and only once a day at first to be sure, using the same topping for a few rounds to make sure there was no reaction, and just occasionally-not every single day at first. Gradually of course we've increased.
Anyways every time we switched over to new foods that's how we did it. It's slow and seems tedious but you can be sure as not to really "shock" their system by overwhelming with too many things. Liffey may have a super strong stomach - in the sense that him being so particular about eating, he can switch cold turkey no problems between many different varieties of feeding.
If you are afraid of the possibility of worms Panacur can't hurt. Our last round vet gave us a 3 day dose and after the 3rd day I called him and asked if I could just come pick up additional dose and we could make it a 7 day dose. Just to be sure if there were any parasites that we knocked them completely out.
Good luck and keep us updated!! FX that your boy likes the NV formula! Hang in there!
 
#21 ·
I switched him cold turkey to Fromm but that was during a multi-week period of him having issues and not really eating any dry food consistently. But I do think that switching cold turkey would be bad news. I wish Fromm made a limited-ingredient diet.

I'm going to keep him on Fromm for awhile but the heartland gold, the one he's eating, has pork meal as one of their main ingredients and that kinda worries me. I have heard pork is not so good to feed to dogs, in general, and especially ones with digestive issues? I might try one of their fish foods...

Maybe the Nature's Variety is a clue for me. If he got worse on it, there must be something about it that's contributing to the problem. If I could only isolate that ingredient, I might be making progress. It was turkey as the protein (which he's not getting now).
 
#22 · (Edited)
I would really stay away from any food with Chicken or Turkey in it.

All of the Fromm's products contain some form of Chicken. (fat, cartilage, eggs, etc)

Pork is fine for dogs.....I feed it in rotation for my dogs raw diet. IF feeding pork raw, it needs to be frozen for 2 weeks before feeding.

Also make sure that this dog is not getting ANYTHING else but the limited kibble you choose and a ONE item treat of meat that matches the protein chosen OR just the kibble as treats.

REMEMBER: Adding many items will skew the Elimination diet.


To get your dog well, you may just need to "bite the bullet" and purchase Ziwi or Stella & Chewy's. :confused:



ACANA Wild Mackerel features an unmatched variety of local ingredients that are fished by people we know and trust, deemed “fit for human consumption”, and then delivered to our Kentucky DogStar® kitchens fresh each day!
Whole mackerel*, mackerel meal, whole green peas, red lentils, sunflower oil, pinto beans, chickpeas, mackerel oil, green lentils, whole yellow peas, natural mackerel flavor, lentil fiber, mustard greens*, collard greens*, turnip greens*, dried kelp, freeze-dried mackerel, whole pumpkin*, whole butternut squash*, kale*, spinach*, whole carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, turmeric, sarsaparilla root, althea root, rose hips, juniper berries, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium animalis fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product.
* delivered fresh or raw
OUR ONLY SUPPLEMENTS: ZINC, COPPER.
OUR ONLY PRESERVATIVE: VITAMIN E (MIXED TOCOPHEROLS) https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles/wild-mackerel/?lang=usaAcana

Mackerel Treats: https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles-treats/mackerel-greens/?lang=usa



ACANA Pork & Squash
features an unmatched variety of local ingredients that are raised by people we know and trust, deemed “fit for human consumption”, and then delivered to our Kentucky DogStar® kitchens fresh each day!
Deboned pork*, pork meal, whole green peas, red lentils, pork liver*, pork fat, pinto beans, chickpeas, herring oil, green lentils, whole yellow peas, whole butternut squash*, pork kidney*, lentil fiber, natural pork flavor, pork cartilage*, dried kelp, freeze-dried pork liver, whole pumpkin*, kale*, spinach*, mustard greens*, collard greens*, turnip greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, zinc proteinate, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, turmeric, sarsaparilla root, althea root, rosehips, juniper berries, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium animalis fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product.
* delivered fresh or raw
OUR ONLY SUPPLEMENT: ZINC.
OUR ONLY PRESERVATIVE: VITAMIN E (MIXED TOCOPHEROLS). https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles/pork-squash/?lang=usa

Acana Pork & Squash Treats: https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles-treats/pork-squash/?lang=usa


There is also Acana Duck and Acana Lamb singles with a matching treat.


Wishing you luck,
Moms :)
 
#25 ·
I received one sample of the Ziwipeak Lamb!

My dog had been fine for 10 days and then right on schedule, lethargy and lack of appetite. But the good news is this time he did not throw up! Last time he did throw up but it was a small amount of bile with no flecks of blood. I'm going to take this as a sign of improvement, sort of, but I still am trying to figure out what is going on. I can't afford any more vet visits unless it's a true emergency. I'm totally tapped out. :(

I'm waiting to offer him the Ziwi until he's eating and drinking normally again (still slow on that but he did eat a little bit today).

He's going through 10 days of being fine and then 36-48 hours of not eating/drinking/playing/pooping. I finished a 7 day dose of Panacur and 3 days after the last dose he got sick again (right on "schedule"). Also I have noticed small hives/swellings around his forehead/eyes. I feel like this is ... allergy or auto immune related? is IBD considered auto immune? None of his blood work pointed to immune abnormalities but with the skin thing going on, I feel like it's not ONLY a "digestive" issue. Am I right?? I'm so lost at this point.

Anyway that's my update... Fingers crossed that he likes the Ziwi but with his track record, I'm not sure.I want to try the Lamb limited ingredient Acana but am kind of afraid to switch diets when Fromm has been working ~90% of the time and Nature's Variety messed him up. Thoughts?
 
#26 ·
have you had the dog's gallbladder and liver checked

have you tried betaine --- sourced from beets
or Wobenzyme which includes digestive enzymes , betaine and ox bile

is there any possibiltiy that there is some cyclic release of something that affects
air quality- some plant burning rubbish or changes in chlorine, floride in the water (not good even at the best of times)

it just seems as if he carries on , start to accumulate something to his tolerance level, purges, and then carries on again

try him on probiotics
 
#28 · (Edited)
He's been on probiotics for a bit. I haven't really noticed any changes.

He's had two rounds of blood testing including GI panels and whatever the complete blood panel is that they normally do. Nothing abnormal. He also had a normal urinalysis and mostly normal ultrasounds (slight thickening of large intestine lining).

The part about him accumulating something in his system until it's too much is something I've thought about, but he started out with being consistently sick for about 2-4 weeks until it started cycling like this. Plus we spent 2 weeks at my mom's place 230 miles away and no difference. He drinks filtered water and I've lived in this apartment for 18 months with no changes that I know of, so I'm having a hard time finding anything environmental.

I haven't tried the stuff from beets.

kimbale said:
IBD is auto-immune. My girl was diagnosed with it when she was about a year old. She was vomiting and having digestive issues constantly. Couldn't keep anything down. There was a time where I thought she was going to die it got so bad.

I honestly think it was more a diagnosis of rulling everything else out than actually proving it. Because she got a lot better once she hit two years old. I also changed up her diet pretty significantly, got her on grain-free Fromm and also did half raw. Started giving her more turkey, duck and other game bird as well as a probiotic.

She's been stellar ever since.

It does kind of sound like auto-immune since he seems to be having flare ups, which are a hallmark. I myself have lupus and the flares can sometimes almost get cyclical like how you described.

They did a full blood panel? Anything off about white or red blood cells? Any signs of inflammation?
My pup is eating Fromm grain-free and when he's not sick, he's fine... ha. His poops and appetite and energy level are fine on the Fromm. I've been shying away from raw due to price and freezer constraints and just never having experimented with it before. I tried to offer him all the different kinds of dehydrated or freeze-dried raw on the market and he politely declined all of them. I guess I could start thinking about introducing a little bit of raw but I've heard a lot of people having bad experiences trying to combine raw with dry. I would love to do homemade but it's overwhelming as far as time, space, and money.

They did two full blood panels like 6 weeks apart. Nothing really abnormal. White and red blood cells were all normal.

Also, he was fine for 3 years and 3 months and then suddenly one day was sick and then really sick. I'm wondering if there was a toxin in the Taste of the Wild food he was eating that caused IBD to develop - antibodies responding to the toxin but then not getting the message to go away? I don't know. But it has NOT been a slow-onset kind of thing.

I also tried coconut oil (he stopped eating it after 2 weeks), THK Perfect Form (won't eat it), canned food (loves it but way too expensive at almost $12/day).
 
#29 ·
I'm not necessarily recommending you do a half raw and half kibble diet, just stating what worked for my dog. I tried going full raw, did the slow switch gave it time and for whatever reason a half and half diet just worked better for her.

Fromm is a good food, so I'd doubt it's that unless he's alergic to a specific ingredient.

Did they specifically test for inflammation? I don't know much about auto-immune diseases in dogs, I just know from my own personal experience with lupus that you can have inflammation and go into a flare even without a high white blood cell count. Also, did they run the test specifically when he was having one of his spells? Blood work can come back completely normal if you're not tested during a flare. There are also ANA and anti-DNA tests, but again that's what I know of people. No idea of any of this is relevant to dogs, but may be worth asking your vet?

You could also try doing an elimination diet to see if there's something specific in his food that's making him upset.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
Yes the testing was done when he was sick. I'm not sure if they did a specific inflammation test - I was told that to diagnose IBD they would have to do a $1500 endoscopy and biopsy the intestine. I declined. Ultrasounds is as far as we went, plus the regular blood tests and GI panel for EPI, folate, cobalamin, B-12, bacterial overgrowth, etc (all normal).

I think I might try limited ingredient, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for it to be a food insensitivity when he's fine for 10 days on the same food and then on the 11th day, not fine. Still can try though because it's a cheap way to sort of rule things out.

carmspack said:
gallbladder blockage, gall stones?
Would these show up in an ultrasound?

Also thinking of trying raw goat's milk. He might actually like that.

@Momto2GSDs he likes Ziwipeak!!! I didn't realize that you don't have to add water. I think the oatmeal texture of the other foods were weirding him out lol
 
#32 ·
The thing about IBD is he can react fine to an ingredient when he isn't having a flare, if that's what it is.

I'd say try an elimination diet, couldn't hurt.


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
Unfortunately, you're going into Ziwi when they are changing formulas!

Pro's......it will contain higher % of meat
Con's.....price will increase slightly, largest bag will be 8#


Lamb main ingredients:

Lamb, Lamb Heart*, Lamb Liver*, Lamb Tripe*, Lamb Kidney*, Lamb Lung*, Lamb Bone, New Zealand Green Mussel,

Tripe & Lamb main ingredients:
L
amb Tripe, Lamb, Lamb Liver*, Lamb Heart*, Lamb Kidney*, Lamb Lung*, Lamb Bone, New Zealand Green Mussel (i don't think it's out yet)

My guy reacts poorly to higher fat, but he has great stool on Ziwi anytime I feed it! But.....all dogs are different, so you'll just have to try it.

Acana "Singles" Lamb & Apple: https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles/lamb-apple/?lang=usa

Also, only feed 100% lamb treats like Pure Lamb" https://www.chewy.com/purebites-lamb-freeze-dried-dog/dp/117429 or just use the Ziwi


Note that in TCM, Lamb is considered the "Hottest" meat for the system, so I'm hoping this will work for your boy.


I would not throw Fromm's into the mix. Too many ingredients.

Make sure he doesn't get ANYTHING but the lamb food and treats, otherwise, it will skew the elimination diet.


I would wean him safely on to the new foods first, getting past his "bad day cycle".

If you decide to give goat's milk, you can find it at a local health food store, or, this is a great one: Answers Raw Pet Food Company: ADDITIONAL - Raw Goat's Milk
Honest Kitchen has one too.


Moms :)



 
#36 ·
you can get raw goat's milk , then lucky you !!

Perfect food , easily digested . Good fats that are naturally suspended .

This afternoon I got a new addition to my already extensive personal reference library .
Another bood on probiotics.
This one is very simple - more of a list on the activity and beneficial use of particular strains applied
to specific health issues .

They also had a section for pre-biotics which are essential to colonization of bacteria -- often missed
or forgotten in formulas.


In the "food" section there was a mention of goat milk . Probiotics available in goat milk !!

so in the morning I'll try to find that page and share the information on goat milk.
Not just the milk but the soft cheeses also.
 
#38 ·
here is the little excerpt

"goat's milk and cheese are particularly high in probiotics like thermophillus, bifudus, bulgaricus and acidophilius"

I can go to a dairy that makes yogurt and get pro-biotic rich liquid whey .

if you were local you could get Saphire's meat blend with this liquid whey mixed right into it.

very good for strengthening the immune system .

I found out that you can feed "scoby" directly to a dog and apparently they love it !

and then there are the Mediterranean fermented milks (very beery) . https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/aro...O9QLg-2wyQ9yw&reviewid=KFEZjOcvk2SnbLr9uyIfHA

that and a lamb or chicken shawarma for lunch -- mmm

lots and lots of options
 
#39 ·
I got a pint of Answers raw goat's milk, and a small bag of Acana Limited Ingredient Lamb & Apple.

The local pet store didn't have any Ziwipeak but they do carry it and can order it, however the Tripe and Lamb is new and so far they can only get 5.5lb bags - which is fine but I'd rather get the larger bag and pay less per pound.

My plan is to introduce the raw goat's milk slowly and see how he does for a full 2 weeks. If he hasn't had any bad days, I'll give it another 2 weeks and go from there. If he has some bad days "on schedule" and not seeming related to the goat's milk, I think I'll keep the goat's milk and introduce (slowly) the Acana dry food. Same thing, see what happens for 2 weeks... If his tummy seems upset by the Acana then I will give that idea up and just introduce Ziwipeak but ultimately I'd like him to be on half kibble and half Ziwi due to $$. He's doing okay on Fromm but there are so many protein sources and I kind of want to narrow it down to see what he can and can't tolerate.

I appreciate all of your help! I still welcome any and all suggestions, things to try, other ways to go about this! Fingers crossed that he likes the goat's milk.
 
#40 ·
another thing I would do is provide home-made bone broth -- just plain -- no vegetables to flavour

you will pull out valuable amino acids including the very important glutathione which is a master enzyme and detoxifier.

there are 3 phases to a detox .

the liver enzymatically changes water soluble toxins and starts the detoxification of fat soluble chemicals

If the enzymes are deficient then the toxins are recycled rather than eliminated.

BONE BROTH , a source of glutathione , and glycine. and organic sulfurs are important for another process which breaks down those fat soluble toxins to help with elimination . This is a complex and very important step.

I can't over emphasize the benefits of good bone broth.

with this particular dog I keep going back to his vomiting of bile .
I forget whether he had stool problems if / or they too were predictable - because even for this there is a reason.

something isn't happening with his detox phases . Fat soluble toxins -- all the hundreds of "new" chemicals / drugs that we are exposed to are difficult to truly effectively eliminate from the body and so they keep recirculating and accumulating .
At some point they deposit in the fat cells . That is one reason why people , dogs , "bodies" should loose
weight at a reasonable rate because rapid weight loss releases too much of this load , with health issues resulting.

back to the stool. This second phase where the water and fat soluble toxins have been chemically joined for elimination involves bile and gall bladder which is directed to the intestinal tract to be eliminated in stool.

Betaine , which I mention often, is derived from beets. Betaine assists liver function and protect liver and bile ducts.

diarrhea is a method of removing toxic waste quickly . So not always something to be plugged up or stopped -- let the body do its job.

now if it is a chronic condition you better get right to the cause and fix THAT, not the symptom , the cause.

At some point the dog pedictabily meets the threshold , has his "crisis" changes his load and starts all over again.

The third phase either allows the body to eliminate the toxins in formed stool or recycle them all over again.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top