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Skin issues

2K views 6 replies 4 participants last post by  CharlieRC 
#1 ·
So, we got Prue at 8 weeks. She turned a year old this month.

In that time she has had 3 different spots come up ( 1 on her belly, 1 on her back foot and 1 in her back leg). She chew a lot and for this reason we had moved her to a grain free poultry free kibble.

Recently she chewed another spot. The vet is concerned with it being food allergies. Actually she said it could be food, environmental or something else (Adepe?) and said first wed try food. She was put on science diet ZD a lititle over a week ago. She's supposed to be on it for 8 to 12 weeks (something about the protein molecules being larger?).

Prue's never had a great appetite. We usually did a mix of kibble and wet both grain and poultry free. But she doesn't eat much at all of this kibble.

She's had a few more chew spots come up this week. The moisture of her chewing causes yeast most times.

This is what I've noticed, she sometimes goes outside and comes back in with really red ears. We went to a park and within minutes of getting out in the grass she was experiencing all this excess saliva. Moving to the dirt pathways made this go away. If she lays on her back and tilts her head back she inevitably starts sneezing. For sometime now her coat seems to be thinning...rubbing your haND down her back and hairs just come free(it has warmed up here and she is maturing from puppy to dog also the thinning seemed to start with the grooming tools we purchased Furminator comb and brush).

Im just not sure this is food and I wonder sometimes if it may be something environmental. What's the best way to self test that? The spots are always small and clear up with meds.

Any experience or advice is welcome.
 
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#2 ·
Have you talked to the vet about trying an antihistimine? Or medicated shampoo?

You have pretty good evidence of a grass allergy...I would actually probably take this dog to a vet dermatologist for a work up. You can throw lots of money at skin allergies very quickly, and the vet derms can help you pinpoint solutions much faster. The initial work up will cost more than a regular vet appointment, but you'll likely save money and get relief faster in the long run.

If you want to do a little experiment on your own, I'd start with bathing.

I've read that the gold standard vet derm treatment now starts with frequent baths with medicated (chlorhex or keto-chlor) shampoo. You can get it from any vet (they nearly all stock it and sell it). Or look for chlorhexidene shampoo on Amazon (same thing the vet sells, but cheaper).

KEEP OUT OF HER EYES!!! (Don't apply it on her above the neck -- it can injure the eye severely.)

This kind of shampoo does not lather, and it has to be left on a few minutes -- follow bottle directions. It can be used twice a week in severe cases. Weekly is usually enough to help. In the rescue, we buy it by the gallon because it's such an easy, inexpensive way to offer relief to dogs with skin issues.

If it's environmental, you'll see immediate improvement in the itching. It will also knock down the yeast and staph that come in secondary to the allergic reaction and cause the hotspots and sores. Be sure to get it between her toes (common area for itching with dogs with grass allergies).

For the ears, get the chlorhexidene wipes (also on Amaxon). Products that also add Ketoconozole are a good bet (it's an antifungal ingredient, to add to the antimicrobial action of the chlorhex).

Here's an example of the kind of shampoo I'm talking about -- look at the reviewer experiences with yeast and allergies:
https://www.amazon.com/Dechra-TrizC...8127052&sr=8-9&keywords=chlorhexidine+shampoo
 
#3 ·
I would definitely try this dog on a raw diet, especially if this is yeast.

Here is a thread about the success of feeding raw when her dog had some similar problems as yours.


The dog was very sick here: 1/18/17: 4:04 pm - My 8mo male is always sick - My 8mo male is always sick by TiaMarie
Hi all, I haven't been doing much on here other than lurking as of late. My 8mo black gsd Oakley has been sick on and off for what seems to be since he was 5 months old. He's been having skin issues since we got him at 10 weeks old.

He came home with a staph and ringworm infection from the breeder- she promptly repaid me the treatments and the vet bill. Shortly after we noticed he was always itchy and we switched him to a fish based limited ingredient diet- which seemed to help a little.
One day (aprox 5 mo) after a romp with our cat I noticed he had a large gash on his forehead. I treated the cut with some ACV and triple antibiotic cream. The following day he began refusing food and had diarrhea- so off to the vet to the tune of $300-ish and I was given expensive Apoquel, 30 day round of antibiotics, and a special shampoo. He seemed to improve a bit, then declined. Vomiting, diarrhea, itching, refusing food, lethargic. We returned to the vet who prescribed a new 21 course of antibiotics, and a sulfur bath. I was told he would need repeated baths, but at this point could not really afford or stand the smell after the first one. Symptoms seemed to quell for a while but he just generally since has been a lethargic dog. A month ago before his scheduled neuter surgery we had another "flare up" this time he was not eating or drinking or pooping. I was convinced he had a blockage so after my $500 vet bill and all was concluded was he had inflammation and needed pepcid and to go back on apoquel for the allergic reactions and another 30 day antibiotic course... I felt fumed. He would have a good day with some energy and the next he wouldn't leave the couch and seemed slightly feverish.

My vet refused to work with me on doing allergy testing with a lab, and vet dermatologist is not in my budget.

I've taken him off of the Apoquel, to be honest I think it was making him sick, he is only a pup and it is not tested for dogs under one, yet the vet kept pushing it on me. He is doing ok on beef products, as of now we have a buffalo limited ingredient food, and when he's "sick" (he will refuse food and vomit/diarrhea) we do rice and pumpkin with boiled beef. He's been on a probiotic, pepcid ac as needed, and benadryl 2x a day (no energy still due to this but seems to manage some discomfort). His ears and scalp are raw with scratching so I've been cleaning them with ACV and I have a lidocaine spray I rub in to help his discomfort. His poor fur is thinning in spots on his head.

I am beside myself. Every time I take him when he's feeling better for a walk he gets an upset belly or feels feverish the next day. I don't run to the vet anymore- I feel like their infinite wisdom has helped put him in this miserable state (I understand his allergies are not in their control- but his lowered immune issues). Does anyone have any ideas? I feel like I'm at a loss- I've sunk so much money into multiple visits over the same issues with no improvement. I love this dog, and his illness is driving me into depression.

1/18/17: 6:56pm - #6:
He was fine on his fish limited ingredient food until one day he wasn't. I don't know if it was just the food, or if the dog food had been a bad batch and made him sick but he just stopped eating and refused to eat for three days. Nothing else changed here other than the weather- I myself have mold allergies which acted up around the same time (with all the snow melting prematurely). He's stopped getting people food for a while now other than the occasional raw carrot or cut zucchini- or when he's sick and I have him on rice, pumpkin, and beef.

I will be getting a second opinion from a vet at some point. Right now I'm just trying to manage him without the Apoquel- which seemed to stop working anyways. His health issues have put me into a finacialy tight spot so I am trying to pay off some things first before I incur more charges from it.

RESULTS from raw diet: Question about RMB and Switching from Commercial to Homemade TiaMarie
2/20/17: 10:08 pm

Hello! Last time I posted about my Oakley he was in rough and poor shape

I appreciate all the advice and information I've found here from you guys, and I know that Oaks is very happy too!
He was covered in oozing scabs and welts on his head and ears and always sick and always SCRATCHING and CHEWING! Now he has a few healing scabs left but overall doing excellent.

We've been eating Stella and Chewie's brand raw beef frozen patties. He gobbles them up and I never have to lure or bribe him to eat food like I used to. Cost wise it is not the best way to feed an 85# pup. However what I thought was allergies has cleared up almost 90% (minus the few healing scabs and the occasional scratching) so I've been experimenting by adding some raw meats (chicken, pork, and sardines) with luck stools have stayed pretty good and no excessive itching other than the occasional scratch here or there (he used to scratch 24/7).

2/20/17: 10:21 am:
I have been bathing him with water/ACV (I can give you this recipe) as a natural way to manage yeast/bacterial balance on his skin so he doesn't get infections from scratching. I spray him down completely to drip dry every other week, and locally daily to manage and prevent infection. I've saved $800 in vet bills since we went raw.

That was quite a success story in a VERY short period of time!


Here is the food and Probiotic information:




Stella & Chewy's:

  • 90-95% meat, nutrient-rich organs and bone
  • Grass-fed, cage-free, wild-caught or farm-raised protein
  • 100% organic fruits and vegetables
  • No grains, gluten, fillers, added hormones or antibiotics
  • 100% complete and balanced for all life stages
All Stella & Chewy’s products are made at our FDA-inspected plant in the metro Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. We work closely with our network of suppliers, all of whom have filed letters of guarantee confirming each ingredient is wholesome and fully compliant with federal regulations, to ensure the highest quality ingredients go into each one of our products.
We source premium meats such as grass-fed beef from North America, Australia, and New Zealand, cage-free chicken from North America, and wild-caught salmon from North America.

All fruits and vegetables are certified organic, and sourced from North and South America as seasonally available. These ingredients are complemented by added minerals and vitamins to make each dinner for dogs or cats complete and balanced as determined by the American Federation of Feed Control Officials (AFFCO). Probiotics and antioxidants are added to each dinner to further enhance each recipe. All product is manufactured using our patented SecureByNature® food safety process. A key feature of that process is High Pressure Processing (HPP). All Stella & Chewy’s products are cold-pressed, using water at pressure equal to that found at the bottom of the ocean (87,000 lbs. per square inch), where harmful bacteria cannot survive.
HPP inactivates pathogens and harmful bacteria without high temperatures. It remains the only recognized process to not use heat as used in pasteurization, chemicals, preservatives, or irradiation, which while effective, can also erode the flavor, texture, color, and nutrition of food.
The HPP process is 100% natural and recognized by the FDA and USDA as an anti-pathogen treatment. It has been deemed as appropriate for many products, and is currently being used in meat, seafood, fruit juice, dairy products, and processed fruits & vegetables.
Stella & Chewy’s strictly follows Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HAACP) guidelines, a prevention-based food safety system established by the FDA and USDA. Low levels of safe, pathogen-fighting ozone and hydrogen peroxide prevent contamination by surface and air-borne pathogens.
Frozen Raw Dinner: https://www.stellaandchewys.com/prod...rozen-patties/
Store locator: https://www.stellaandchewys.com/where-to-buy/



OR




ZIWI PEAK:
"Air Dried Food"

ZiwiPeak Cuisine
(condensed info)
ZiwiPeak pet food is a complete, natural balanced real-meat diet prepared with care in New Zealand. All of our natural ingredients are sourced from the green, free range farms and blue, pristine oceans of New Zealand. The twin stage process eliminates pathogenic bacteria, such as e.coli, salmonella and listeria, while protecting the natural nutrition of our ingredients. As a further safety step, our products are mandatory tested and only released for sale after approval by the New Zealand government's regulatory authorities.
Air-drying is a technique that has been used for centuries to naturally preserve meats. Our modern method stays true to this artisan approach, while eliminating the need for artificial preservatives, salts, sugars or glycerines. Our slow, gentle, twin-stage air-drying process crafts a food that is as nutrient-dense and digestible as a completely raw diet but safe, clean to handle and can store for up to 21 months.

Example:
Beef: A complete, balance diet of ranch raised beef meat and organs, this protein rich meal features delicious red meat and nutrient dense organs. It also includes New Zealand green-lipped mussels, a natural source of chondroitin for joint support, and herbs, vitamins and minerals, making it suitable for all breeds and life stages.

Beef ingredients - Beef Meat (min 58%), Liver, Lung, Tripe (min 32%); Green-lipped Mussel (min 3%); Lecithin; Chicory Inulin; Dried Kelp; Parsley. Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols; Vitamins: Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Hydrochloride; Chelated Minerals: Iron amino acid complex, Copper amino acid complex, Manganese amino acid complex, Zinc amino acid complex, Selenium Yeast, Potassium Bicarbonate, Calcium CarbonateCalories - 2227 Kcal/lb
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 38%
Crude Fat (min) 35%
Crude Fiber (max) 1.0%
Moisture (max) 13%
Ash (max) 7%
Calcium 1.83%
Phosphorus 1.29%

An 11 pound bag will last a 70 pound dog approximately 20 days.

Price is $142.00 but if you get it on the "auto shipped" program the price goes down to $128.00 for 11 pounds at Only Natural Pet: ZiwiPeak Daily Cuisine Grain-Free Air-Dried Dog Food
There is a feeding calculator at the bottom of this page; Our Ingredients | ZiwiPeak








I would also suggest a high quality Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (immune system helps fight allergens) it is very important to keep it very healthy.

Below are Human Ingredient Products:
Sunday Sundae (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/search?q=sunday+sundae
Gut Sense (ProBiotic): http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense
Digest All Plus: (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine
Animal Essentials: Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials




Moms:)
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the info.

Interesting that you mention between the toes because the spots that popped this week were in between her toes.

The vet said if it was food her diet would change and then we'd eventually do food challenges. If it was environmental or the other (adepi?) then it would be to treat symptoms.

I'm in a rural area I'd have to research where a vet derm would be located.

My son had Crohn's disease so I'm familiar with elimination diets, enteral feeds and food sensitivitis. I know dogs are different but I just don't see the correlation with food like I do with the environment.

I'll ask the vet about the shampoos. She didn't want to treat symptoms (unless infected because it would skew the diet change results meaning what is helping what isnt.) She did mention a JAK inhibitor if the allergies were environmental or the other. I'm familiar with those as they relate to studies in humans for CD. I think the one she mentioned was Apoquel.
 
#5 ·
I'm going to take a guess that you might possibly be in the South because the early spring here is causing all the greenery to explode and pollen is thick right now. The vets I know are seeing tons of hotspots that seem to be environmentally triggered -- probably pollen coating everything.

If it's a pollen allergy, an antihistimine will help a lot -- Zyrtec is helping several dogs I know get through this pollen season (and me too!!!). Your vet can give you dosing -- you can use the generic version of the human med from Walmart, Sams or Costco.

To find a vet derm, look at your state's vet school -- they're often associated with a vet school clinic.
 
#6 ·
You guessed right! Georgia.

I'm going to ask about the shampoos and make sure she knows that Prue has symptoms after play outside.

She's never been a huge eater(especially dry kibble) but will gobble it down when mixed with wet. She eats enough of this science diet ZD to get by. But she waits til she's really hungry before she touches it.

She was 80 lbs at around 11 mos but she's definitely lost weight from changing the diet. I'm a freak about weight loss (PTSD from my son's CD, I guess) but the vet isn't worried. She's full of energy and doesn't seem lethargic or anything.

I found a vet derm in ATL but I'm going to check Athens as well.

Thanks for all the info.
 
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