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My 8mo male is always sick

3K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  Matt Burback 
#1 ·
Hi all, I haven't been doing much on here other than lurking as of late. My 8mo black gsd Oakley has been sick on and off for what seems to be since he was 5 months old. He's been having skin issues since we got him at 10 weeks old.

He came home with a staph and ringworm infection from the breeder- she promptly repaid me the treatments and the vet bill. Shortly after we noticed he was always itchy and we switched him to a fish based limited ingredient diet- which seemed to help a little.
One day (aprox 5 mo) after a romp with our cat I noticed he had a large gash on his forehead. I treated the cut with some ACV and triple antibiotic cream. The following day he began refusing food and had diarrhea- so off to the vet to the tune of $300-ish and I was given expensive Apoquel, 30 day round of antibiotics, and a special shampoo. He seemed to improve a bit, then declined. Vomiting, diarrhea, itching, refusing food, lethargic. We returned to the vet who prescribed a new 21 course of antibiotics, and a sulfur bath. I was told he would need repeated baths, but at this point could not really afford or stand the smell after the first one. Symptoms seemed to quell for a while but he just generally since has been a lethargic dog. A month ago before his scheduled neuter surgery we had another "flare up" this time he was not eating or drinking or pooping. I was convinced he had a blockage so after my $500 vet bill and all was concluded was he had inflammation and needed pepcid and to go back on apoquel for the allergic reactions and another 30 day antibiotic course... I felt fumed. He would have a good day with some energy and the next he wouldn't leave the couch and seemed slightly feverish.

My vet refused to work with me on doing allergy testing with a lab, and vet dermatologist is not in my budget.

I've taken him off of the Apoquel, to be honest I think it was making him sick, he is only a pup and it is not tested for dogs under one, yet the vet kept pushing it on me. He is doing ok on beef products, as of now we have a buffalo limited ingredient food, and when he's "sick" (he will refuse food and vomit/diarrhea) we do rice and pumpkin with boiled beef. He's been on a probiotic, pepcid ac as needed, and benadryl 2x a day (no energy still due to this but seems to manage some discomfort). His ears and scalp are raw with scratching so I've been cleaning them with ACV and I have a lidocaine spray I rub in to help his discomfort. His poor fur is thinning in spots on his head.

I am beside myself. Every time I take him when he's feeling better for a walk he gets an upset belly or feels feverish the next day. I don't run to the vet anymore- I feel like their infinite wisdom has helped put him in this miserable state (I understand his allergies are not in their control- but his lowered immune issues). Does anyone have any ideas? I feel like I'm at a loss- I've sunk so much money into multiple visits over the same issues with no improvement. I love this dog, and his illness is driving me into depression.
 
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#2 ·
What a nightmare! I'm so sorry for both of you!

Sounds like your dog if full of toxins and needs to be detoxed with some different herbals!

Also sounds like it may be a long road getting him back to health.

Anyway possible you could afford to feed a commercially prepared raw BALANCED diet for about 10 weeks? Raw diets contain limited ingredients, and are sourced from clean meat without hormones or antibiotics and without grains, gluten, fillers, added. Just Meat & Veggies...pure and simple!

Primal (Primal's site is down at the moment) and Stella & Chewy's has raw food that is processed using. High Pressure Processing (known as HPP) which kills the bacteria. Since his immune system is a wreck, I would only recommend using a raw food that has been processed with HPP.

Explanation from S & C site:
HPP inactivates pathogens and harmful bacteria without high temperatures. It remains the only recognized process to not use heat as used in pasteurization, chemicals, preservatives, or irradiation, which while effective, can also erode the flavor, texture, color, and nutrition of food.
The HPP process is 100% natural and recognized by the FDA and USDA as an anti-pathogen treatment. It has been deemed as appropriate for many products, and is currently being used in meat, seafood, fruit juice, dairy products, and processed fruits & vegetables.

Stetla & Chewy's: https://www.stellaandchewys.com/products/dog-dinner/
Primal: http://www.primalpetfoods.com/education/foodsafety They do not use the HPP with all of their foods.


Feeding calculator:
Feeding Calculator ? Northwest Naturals


All of the antibiotics he's be given (not to mention the toxins) HAD to have a horrible effect on his gut! Almost 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is imperative to keep it healthy! Did this vet ever suggest a ProBiotic to be given 2 hours before or after administering an antibiotic??????


I participated in a live webinar last year that was taught by Julie Ann Lee (Homeopath) and was SO impressed with the HIGH Quality Human Grade products that she was making for dogs and cats.
This "bundle" (below) may get your dog on the road to recovery.

Here are the products in the bundle:
Step 1: Anti-Vaccinosis (Initial 2 Day Regime to assist in removing vaccine damage) 15 ml liquid
Step 2: Liver Tonic (To detoxify and support the liver) 60 ml liquid
Step 3: Healthy Gut (Digestive Enzyme/Pre &Probiotic to restore gut/immune balance) 83 g powder
Step 4: Gut Soothe (Important anti-inflammatory to limit further leakage) 153 g powder
Step 5: Gut Seal (To help strengthen and repair the gut tissue) 30 ml liquid


She sells her products through Dogs Naturally Magazine.
https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/leaky-gut-protocol?variant=21807657345


Moms:)
 
#4 ·
Thank you for your response. I've looked into both brands, my concern is the cost/meal ratio is so high! It would cost me $60 for 3 days worth of food (we are on a budget and trying to pay off debt so that would not work right now). I've been contemplating making up my own dog food for him, however I realize that this is not 100% nutritionally complete without additional supplementation- more research is needed. I live near a butcher where I could get beef cuts and organ meats at a reasonable price compared to grocery store prices so it's tempting with the right knowledge to cook my own, I am not sure how I could do a raw diet this way, and I'm not sure like you said without proper safety taken to not make him more ill.

His breeder recommended that I try MSM for his inflammation and allergies, do you know anything about this? I cannot seem to find by itself it locally unless it's an additional ingredient in a supplement.
 
#9 ·
Thank you for your response. I've looked into both brands, my concern is the cost/meal ratio is so high! It would cost me $60 for 3 days worth of food (we are on a budget and trying to pay off debt so that would not work right now). I've been contemplating making up my own dog food for him, however I realize that this is not 100% nutritionally complete without additional supplementation- more research is needed. I live near a butcher where I could get beef cuts and organ meats at a reasonable price compared to grocery store prices so it's tempting with the right knowledge to cook my own, I am not sure how I could do a raw diet this way, and I'm not sure like you said without proper safety taken to not make him more ill.

His breeder recommended that I try MSM for his inflammation and allergies, do you know anything about this? I cannot seem to find by itself it locally unless it's an additional ingredient in a supplement.
I use MSM every day for my dogs, and just began my EXTREMELY food sensitive Grand-Dog on it! The highest quality MSM (in my opinion from researching) is produced by The Bergstrom Company (I can supply their references) and sold by a company called Kala. Click on the 1 Pound Powder: ARTHRIX Plus contains MSM, glucosamine, Ester-C, chondroitin and cetyl myristoleate to help dogs and cats with joint problems

Creating you own food is not impossible just a commitment and time consuming.

You may be figuring a little high but I have 2 more ideas for you!

ZiwiPeak is an "Air Dried" Food (not Freeze Dried or Dehydrated). It's free ranged, no hormones or antibiotics and 95% meat, complete and balanced. They are soft little squares.
Ingredients:
Beef Meat (min 58%), Liver, Lung, Tripe (min 32%); Green-lipped Mussel (min 3%); Lecithin; Chicory Inulin; Dried Kelp; Parsley + supplements.

"The twin stage process eliminates pathogenic bacteria, such as e.coli, salmonella and listeria, while protecting the natural nutrition of our ingredients."

An 11 pound bag will feed a 70 pound dog around 20 days. An 11# bag of beef is around $135 on chewy.com with their auto ship program. Other varieties are a little more expensive.

Feeding Example:
50 pound dog, 8-12 months old:
Energy required: 1559 kCal
Amount fed per day: 9.5oz
Scoops per day: 4.74 (1 scoop that is provided in the bag equals 1/2 cup)

The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated food is 100% Human Food and is the only pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words “Human Food” on their advertising and packaging.

A 10# box (about $98) RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food. LOVE:

https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen

51 to 70 pound dog highly active dog will use 4 cups per day. A 10# box at this amount will last 10 days. So about $300 per month.



There is also a BASE mix to which you add your own meat raw or cooked: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/base-mix
51-70 pound highly active dogs: 1&1/4th cup base mix + 1&1/2 cup real meat (2 cups of raw meat = 1 pound). Lasts about 18 days PREFERENCE is $60 PLUS Your own meat __?__

Only "con" of HK, IMHO, is that the dogs will produce a lot of stool.

Moms:)
 
#5 ·
Did anything change in your home or yard or his diet at five months? Can you find a different vet? I'm not a big fan of raw, but I would try it in your case. There are ways to do it that are less expensive. I would also get a second vet opinion on other possible causes and talk to the breeder to see of other dogs from her kennel have problems like your does and if so how they were treated.

I don't think Apoquel is made for long term use. It's fine for short term. My dog used it as an adult.
 
#7 ·
I would also get a second vet opinion on other possible causes and talk to the breeder to see of other dogs from her kennel have problems like your does and if so how they were treated.
His breeder claims he is the first dog of hers to have these types of issues. She's only had one other dog with a chicken sensitivity but it was fixed with a food change. She recommended a limited ingredient diet and to try probiotics and MSM.

One of his litter mates had a skin issue- I think it was a type of mange? And it was treated with a topical flea treatment 3x over 6 weeks. I've had the vet do multiple skin scrapings on him and they found no mange, parasites, yeast, or bacteria. He gets these big scaby welts that he scratches every time he breaks out.
 
#6 ·
He was fine on his fish limited ingredient food until one day he wasn't. I don't know if it was just the food, or if the dog food had been a bad batch and made him sick but he just stopped eating and refused to eat for three days. Nothing else changed here other than the weather- I myself have mold allergies which acted up around the same time (with all the snow melting prematurely). He's stopped getting people food for a while now other than the occasional raw carrot or cut zucchini- or when he's sick and I have him on rice, pumpkin, and beef.

I will be getting a second opinion from a vet at some point. Right now I'm just trying to manage him without the Apoquel- which seemed to stop working anyways. His health issues have put me into a finacialy tight spot so I am trying to pay off some things first before I incur more charges from it.
 
#8 ·
My dog was getting those. They put him on Bravecto for fleas, ticks and because it works, mange. Also antibiotics. They didn't even test for it. It worked. I bathe him myself using a medicated soap that you leave on for ten minutes. I also switched food. He gets pumpkin and unflavored plain Greek yogurt with probiotics. I switched laundry soap to a non allergenic unscented type, and wash his bedding regularly. I still don't know for sure why he is itching.
 
#12 ·
I spend roughly $350 a month for raw for 7 dogs. It is way cheaper then buying kibble. I have two that can't have most of the ingredients in kibble and then a couple super high energy dogs and a senior. I would be buying like 4 different kinds of food. It would drive me insane....LOL
 
#11 ·
From what I understand Apoquel does not help the immune system, which could be part of the problem. I think you need to find out what he is intolerant to in order to move forward. I was feeding mine salmon and sweet potatoe because I thought it was safe and I found out that he couldn't have either. I also just read that salmon that is from American waters is carrying japaneese tapeworm, not sure if it's true or can affect dogs? Midnite just went through a bout if something, missing fur on his ears. He had been having more beef lately and I think that is part of it. So now I limit the beef and rotate the protrins he can have. It seems to be working. We also added raw goats milk. The vet did try to give me Bravecto for fleas just in case but recent reviews were not good, maybe a bad batch? Not sure, but I did not give it.
 
#14 ·
I think everyone here is a lot more knowledgeable than me, but have you tried canned food? My dog has been having issues similar to yours except without the excessive itching, and I've switched him to canned food for two weeks (Wild Calling lamb or beef) which has made a huge difference. Not a permanent solution but it might help you to figure out if his food is a big part of the issue.

LuvShepherds said:
I see why people can't afford raw. But it's cheaper than going to the vet every month.
This!!!!!
 
#15 ·
If possible, I would find a good holistic vet. He/she will attempt to work with the dog to solve his issues instead of just throwing drugs at him to treat the symptoms.
 
#19 ·
I'm sorry to hear Oakley has been so ill for so long. It can be mind numbing trying to find out the cause of the dreaded "itch".

First off: homemade raw is completely doable if you have the time and do a little research before you get started. As far as cost of raw feeding. It is very individual. If chicken is tolerated it can be very inexpensive to feed raw. If you are like me and have a dog allergic to almost everything, then raw feeding will be very expensive.

Limited ingredient kibbles are great but you have to read the label carefully. In my search I found many supposed (labelled) limited ingredient foods that actually had way to many ingredients and multiple proteins and/or carbs making them anything but limited ingredient. Commercial raw/frozen raw products very widely in price and are pretty pricey (more than home prepared raw) that could be utilized short term to ensure a balanced limited ingredient diet through the healing process.

As Moms stated you will have to work on gut health and rebuild the immune system. Before you can do that you have to have a ground zero starting point. I would do a bland diet for 5-7 days. Go slow. One thing at a time.

Most importantly, as you are well aware, you need to find the cause of the itching. You might want to consider Dr. Dodds NutriScan food sensitivity testing. It could very well be the best $300 you spend. It was a life saver for my girl and me. We still have some itching issues but I'm certain that the remaining issues are environmental in origin and we manage with oral antihistamines when needed. But our days of chronic diarrhea, constant chewing on herself, gooey eyes and raw scabby skin are mostly gone. We still have flares but at least now we know what foods cause issues and avoid them.

Oh...keep a diary. Record foods, treats, supplements and meds. It will help you see if there is a link to any one or group of things.

I hope you are able to find what is making Oakley feel so badly soon and he has a speedy recovery
 
#20 ·
Thank you everyone! I am looking and researching holistic vets in my area (my homework this weekend), he had a bought of tummy trouble yesterday evening and is since doing a little better. It's like a roller coaster with him. Someone mentioned the lepto vaccine and I went back to his vet records to see that everything actually started a week after his second vaccination for it, which is something to question the next vet. I am going to hold off on any new vaccines for now.
 
#25 ·
I'm not sure how much neuters usually go but I was quoted $685?!
I had my dog neutered by the local animal rescue league and it was $135 including the drugs they sent us home with. Had no problems whatsoever. The private vet clinic nearby quoted me nearly $600 for the same procedure. A lot of cities have low-cost spay and neuter options with fully qualified vets. But I would definitely hold off on that for now.
 
#26 ·
I would hold off on everything until he is healthy. His system has been compromised a couple times. The last dog I got neutered was about a year ago and it costed around $200 with bloodwork at my regular vet. I can't even comprehend how any vet could charge anymore then $300 and that is on the high end.

I don't know if this was mentioned but is there a reason that you gave all of these vaccines? Were they given together?
 
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#27 ·
I don't know if this was mentioned but is there a reason that you gave all of these vaccines? Were they given together?
He got his core vaccinations. Then because I wanted to take him hiking with me frequently and because of where I live the vet said I should get the Lyme's disease and lepto vaccine and that they usually give them together. I was going to just do the Lyme's disease vaccine because my brother's dog had gotten Lyme's in his own back yard, but the pushed me to get both even though I felt comprehensive about the Lepto.
 
#28 ·
They give Lyme and Lepto together? If your dog is getting lethargic after the vaccinations then I would split them up to figure out which one. I would also check the rate of Lepto infection in your area. Mine is almost zero so I don't do a Lepto. And I prefer to use repellents like Advantix over relying on a vaccine for Lyme
 
#30 ·
moms said " use MSM every day for my dogs, and just began my EXTREMELY food sensitive Grand-Dog on it! The highest quality MSM (in my opinion from researching) is produced by The Bergstrom Company (I can supply their references) and sold by a company called Kala. Click on the 1 Pound Powder: ARTHRIX Plus contains MSM, glucosamine, Ester-C, chondroitin and cetyl myristoleate to help dogs and cats with joint problems "

I can concur with the recommendations for this brand of MSM. It IS what I use in the making of both Sunday Sundae and Feed-Sentials.
The vast majority of MSM is China made.
 
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