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9 month old FCP -calcification in neck

4K views 33 replies 10 participants last post by  Joey-and-chandler 
#1 ·
Hi,

We have just come out the vets and im in tears. My puppys been limping a while, favouring his left leg, we were worried it might be elbow dysplasia. Vet couple months ago said it was panosteitis.

Today we were at the ortho vet, just got out with some crappy news. He started saying theh found many wrong things with Joey.
1.- he found in between his neck and spine area (sorry j dont know the fancy doctor words) some sort of calcification. Ge said make sure he is balanced fed (he is on raw and i thought i was feeding balanced- 30 percent raw meaty bones, 10 percent organs, rest is muscle meat. I am at a loss at the minute as what to do.
He said they will need to keep an eye on it and if it gets bigger they will need to remove it.

2- we thought it was the left elbow but turns out its all of his front joints that is somehow affected. Right elbow seems alright but left elbows, its coronoid process he said does not look right. They did a ct scan and got a fluid of the joints, he said his right shoulders fluid is a bit off and he needs to further investigate.

He wanted to do arthoscopy but as couple of joints are affected he did not it. We are booked for the beginning of october to do the arthoscopy, the he said that if his cartilage looks alright, he can do a surgery for the coronoid process and said if the cartilage is in a bad shape he will discuss that then.

Anyone had couple of issues at the same time like this?

Especially never heard of the calcification.

He said keep him on 15 mins walks on lead only. And if we are lucky and he has the
Coronoid surgery only, even then we are looking for months! Of healing process.

Does this mean my dog will never be able to be a normal dog again doing fun dog things? I feel so sorry and cant describe. He is high drive as well. Im lost.

Have two dogs and he said dont ever put them together if they are jumping at each other
 
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#2 ·
Wow.That's devastating news to hear.No experience with these issues.Just feel terrible for you and your pup and hoping that there's light at the end of the tunnel.
 
#5 ·
Did your ortho vet call the calcium deposit Calcinosis Circumscripta? If so, Sonny has it also (seen lateral and ventral to C5-6). I had to pull his file to verify the location.

My understanding of these is that they occur rarely. Our vet at the time had only seen it a handful of times in his career. Sonnys' was noticed at about 12 weeks old or so. We took drays and had it aspirated to confirm. My vet wanted to remove it as that was standard procedure but it was not interfering with anything and with discussion, we chose to take a "keep an eye on it" approach.

When I looked back at my records, it was about a year later that my boy needed an xray for a limp and I requested that they also xray the calcium deposit. It had not changed.

With so much that you are dealing with right now, I just wanted to maybe ease your mind about this particular issue if it is the same and it sounds like it is. I can actually feel the lump when he turns his neck and honestly it seems a bit smaller and has had no negative impact on his health so far. I believe I also read that it can sometimes resolve on its own.

I like your vets "keep an eye on it" approach.

Wishing you the best outcome with everything.
 
#6 ·
Hi. Thank you so much. Inwas going to send you a message i believe or something i cant remember if i did as i found one of your threads. I feel so bad feel like cursing all the time. Thank you so much i hope what we have got is something that wont hurt him. Vet sounded and looked so surprise when he was giving us the news and couple of times he said this is very uncommon!
He said they took blood to test the calcium levels and electrolaytes (?) and will come back to us. Did they do calcium test to yohr dog.

What are you feeding also? I am raw feeding and although i am doing everything to the book, i questioned myself a bit as he emphasized "nake sure he gets balanced diet not too much calcium"
 
#7 ·
As far as the diet, I'm kinda wondering where the numbers you were using came from? I've always seen 80% muscle meat-10% Bone-10% organs. So if the vet is recommending balanced then I would think that is it. I'm thinking that lowering the bone content from 30 to 10 might help.

I hope everything works itself out and the pup feels better soon.
 
#9 ·
Hi. Have a read over on this product
Serrapeptase (also referred to as serratiopeptidase)


Home - SerraPetSerraPet


I would also advise you start making your own gelatin/bone stock. I will find a thread I have posted a recipe/how to on and copy it here.
I think your RAW %'s are based on BARF, the 80/10/10 is prey model #'s(?). Trying to figure out what % of an RMB is meat and bone...phfft.
I'm sure you are doing fine. Mix it up though.


Calcification is a normal process caused by inflammation. Nip the inflammation in the butt.
The only thing I would be hesitant to mention regarding this whole body joint issue...would be auto-immune...not to add more to the pile:frown2:
I think you have a growing pup, who much like every other dog needs to be a dog. Minor injuries are going to occur, Some major "might" occur.
Strengthen your dogs muscles with physio type exercise. Nourish the joint matrix and tendons, provide antioxidants through nutrition (glutathione being the best natural one the body produces - promoted with bone stock - NOT from a tetra pack). Treat the body as a whole.
 
#12 ·
Ill read over the product. Thank you. What fo you mean auto immune thing?:/ i dont know if he now has ocd in the shoulder and then arthritis settled in or is it ostearthritis. He said they are inflamed so obviouslyf the joint fluid is not doinig its job he said we can only know by arthoscopy and as we are talking about multiple joints he said he cant do them at the same time. If it is some sort of arthiritis at this young age does that mean my puppy will have a rubbish life. What does it all mean in not doctor fancy words i dont know. o
Hi. Have a read over on this product
Serrapeptase (also referred to as serratiopeptidase)


Home - SerraPetSerraPet


I would also advise you start making your own gelatin/bone stock. I will find a thread I have posted a recipe/how to on and copy it here.
I think your RAW %'s are based on BARF, the 80/10/10 is prey model #'s(?). Trying to figure out what % of an RMB is meat and bone...phfft.
I'm sure you are doing fine. Mix it up though.


Calcification is a normal process caused by inflammation. Nip the inflammation in the butt.
The only thing I would be hesitant to mention regarding this whole body joint issue...would be auto-immune...not to add more to the pile

I think you have a growing pup, who much like every other dog needs to be a dog. Minor injuries are going to occur, Some major "might" occur.
Strengthen your dogs muscles with physio type exercise. Nourish the joint matrix and tendons, provide antioxidants through nutrition (glutathione being the best natural one the body produces - promoted with bone stock - NOT from a tetra pack). Treat the body as a whole.
 
#10 ·
The vet may be talking about the calcium/phosphorus ratio. Maybe that is why he drew blood and tested.

My boy was kibble fed up until about 8 months ago & then switched to raw but while on kibble I made sure the ratio was as close to 1:1 as possible. He is 5yrs old now.

At the time my vet did take blood but I don't think he tested for a calcium level. He was adamant about aspirating it though. When aspirated, a milky substance is drawn out of the calcium deposit.

Llombardo and others will be more experienced in the proper raw feeding dept than I and also I don't feed chicken so my bone source is a bit different.

I do know the going crazy feeling though when hit with multiple issues at once so please, try to step back from it for a little while each day to just enjoy you pup and give yourself a break. Easier said than done, but you both probably need it.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I'm just starting to feel comfortable feeding raw. I did not start a raw diet until the youngest was a a year. At this point I would still not feel comfortable feeding a puppy a raw diet that I balanced. If it was commercially prepared, then I would be ok with that.

If the vet is not recommending any kind of movement that could cause more damage, how can the OP do any kind of exercises that might help? Or what exercises are recommended in this case?
 
#11 ·
you did not cause this.

contact the breeder --- this is "health conditions" which should be covered by a guarantee

"- he found in between his neck and spine area (sorry j dont know the fancy doctor words) some sort of calcification"

did the vet say ankylosing spondylosis?

did the vet say ununited anconeal process?

did the vet say wobblers?
 
#13 ·
Hi carmen,

He definitely didnt say wobblers. He used the word calcification and said it is very unusual and he is surprised. Said dont over feed him calcium.

But he sounded more worried about his joints. He said if it was just the fcp in his elbow it is sortable, but he took fluid of all joints, surprisingly his right shoulder fluid has red tinge to it. And he said some stuff about counting the cells and inflamation and fluid being too fluidy. It is all in the air and i felt like fainting. He said he sent the files to our vet and we will go have a talk. If it is just the right shoulder with the fluid problem why does he need to take all joints arthoscopy.

He said he doesnt know if any cartilages are worn out so he wants to check them all. Said he wants to know if something more serious.

Im shaking with fear of losing my dog.
 
#18 ·
Any chance your specialty vet would give you a written summary of his findings? I get one every time from my dermatology vet. Otherwise wait until the specialist's report gets to your general vet and make an appointment to go in and get things explained better. He/she might even copy that report for you. I understand your feelings of bewilderment and confusion when getting bad news. It is hard to assimilate facts when you are in shock.
 
#20 ·
Sorry to hear the news. I had hoped soft tissue.
No this does not mean your pup can't have a healthy, active life. He's just going to restricted for a while which sucks. If it is fcp he's likely to have arthritis in that joint later in life. I was all set to deal with this but received a better diagnosis. Get him a light drag line when you're not walking him on leash to control his jumping.
Is the other diagnosis Calsinosis circumscripta? Yana had that on her neck at about 3-4 months old but it didn't bother her so I left it alone and it's gone now at 1 year old (or at least I can't feel it anymore). I recommend leaving that alone unless it restricts movement or causes pain.
 
#21 ·
I knew it was something bad but hoped many things:( his elbow is fcp which the vet seems alright with but he is concerned so much about this joint fluid he got from his shoulder which was off colour and consistency. Which i cant figure oht what it might be cant sleep or do anything. He is just recovering from anaesthetics. Hope to get no more bad news. [.QUOTE=ausdland;8077969]Sorry to hear the news. I had hoped soft tissue.
No this does not mean your pup can't have a healthy, active life. He's just going to restricted for a while which sucks. If it is fcp he's likely to have arthritis in that joint later in life. I was all set to deal with this but received a better diagnosis. Get him a light drag line when you're not walking him on leash to control his jumping.
Is the other diagnosis Calsinosis circumscripta? Yana had that on her neck at about 3-4 months old but it didn't bother her so I left it alone and it's gone now at 1 year old (or at least I can't feel it anymore). I recommend leaving that alone unless it restricts movement or causes pain.[/QUOTE]
 
#22 ·
My GSD mix just had surgery 2 weeks ago for moderate FCP in both elbows. Her limp showed up around 10-12 months but we only just did surgery now at 18 months due to schedule shenanigans on my end. Arthroscopic surgery really wasn't a big deal for her (she already wants to go to the park and play with the dogs we know when we see them) but we have strict exercise restrictions for 4-6 weeks post surgery and then we're supposed to slowly work her back up and prioritize exercise that is easy on her elbows (so no fetch, no jumping, no wrestling). My insurance covered the arthroscopic surgery no problem. It's totally manageable but she won't be able to do agility or go for super long walks on hard surfaces and I've had to re-adjust my dreams a little bit.

I don't know anything about the joint fluid stuff. Hopefully the vet gets back to you with more information soon!
 
#23 ·
Thank you. I read good things about fcp. I think vet will be checking for autoimmune SLE(which I'm just gathering info on with tears) or I don't know. We have two dogs as well and I don't know now if we will
Ever be able to keep them together due to them playing hard and wrestling. I just don't know
 
#24 ·
Hi people, we have just got off the phone with the ortho vet, he said that he has got the blood and the fluid results, he said thank god that this issue with my dog is NOT immune related and most likely to be a traumatic and maybe some force caused.

He said that the puppy definitely has fcp in the left elbow and he says these are usually biliteral and as his fluid seems off its likely that hes got a problem with the shoulder probably and that is why he wants to check all joints ( dejenerative issues with the shoulder).

He said that he can have a long life BUT he will never be %100 good especially with arthritis etc.

I will come back here and rely to this thread or create a new one according to the arthroscopy that will take place in the beginning of october.

I will probably be asking questions about the outcome.

He said the diet i am feeding seems the suit my dog as his kidney and liver and calcium levels are alright.
 
#25 ·
That's great news. Now shouldn't any surgery wait until fully grown?
 
#26 ·
I dont hink so. I mean what do i knows but according to the info i gathered the sooner the better.

Well its not great news but at least not life threatening. (hopefully)
Life is funny, before we got to the specialist vet all i was thinking was "oh god hope he only has panosteitis hope its not elbow dysplasia" after been to the ortho vet and got couple of wrong things i started thinking "hope its only elbow dysplasia and can be sorted out with surgery". Now im alright with him having fcp or some treatable stuff as long as it does heal and does not linger. Hope he can still run and enjoy life to an extent.
 
#28 ·
Hey, I just realized you are in England. Serrapet has a UK link. Just Google Serrapet UK
and AWWW, cutie pie
 
#29 ·
Now you know what you are dealing with, you can relax and take it one step at a time. I would stop the rough play. Mine like to do that so I've had to separate at times and exercise them first. Make sure you get your other dog very tired so he's not going to need to play as much.
 
#31 ·
Another thing is, we had a usa holiday planned and scheduled, asked the vet if he thinks we need to cancel the trip due to this healtg issue and the vet said no we should do it now as we wont be getting another holiday for a couple of months with the puppys recovery.

-i actually might start a new holiday thread as i am heart broken to leave my prts at a kennel for the first time. They were going to share the same room (its a dog hotel rather than a kennel)
Now indont know if we should book teo seperate rooms in case they wrestle in the room - or it might eveb be late to get another room
 
#32 ·
quote J & C
"He said the diet i am feeding seems the suit my dog as his kidney and liver and calcium levels are alright."

great !!!


Demands on time --- created two "monster" posts , this topic and another --- thoughts put down as time permitted , a draft held over till completed. Hit submit and the post disappears -- says hit back button . Where? I never get the restored copy .

so with apologies , because there are demands on time , I sort of put key points together for this one

quote J & C
"He said the diet i am feeding seems the suit my dog as his kidney and liver and calcium levels are alright."

and diarrhea problem fixed !

Big problems resolved .

Diarrhea, which was persistent , especially during a foundational growth period just has to have some effect .
I have been giving a lot of thought about this . Afterall diarrhea is malabsorption. You could throw in the finest food and the inability to make use of those nutrients still leaves the body short changed.
I am not saying that persistent diarrhea was causative but could have contributed to a "perfect storm" of GENETICS meets outside influences EPIGENETICS.

You do have a guarantee on the dog against genetic health issues .


Your main action, your main concern is reduce inflammation .

Serrapetase , is a proteolytic enzyme , protease , which helps break down and eliminate irregular protein .
This form of digestive enzyme has the same function as other proteolytic enzymes , such as bromelain , papain.
They function to find and breakdown the remnants of larger , undigested , food particles in the bloodstream so that they can be delivered to the liver and allow it to be filtered and expelled.
There are products available , used in human biomedical health , which do combine Serrapeptase , in this order,
protease, serrapeptase, papain, bromelain, amylase, lipase, rutin and amla .

if giving serrapeptase it is recommended to give away from a protein meal .

Serrapeptase I mentioned a few months back http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ly-known-about-supplements-hip-dysplasia.html

Your dog is going to undergo surgery at some point ? Serrapeptase is excellent to help POST surgical drainage and local inflammation. I would give a wide margin of time when serrapeptse is discontinued PRIOR to surgery .
Friends and family members who (lol are pretty bionici) have had knee replacements and shoulder surgery surprised their drs with rapid healing after surgery.


Remember , again, treat the body as a WHOLE.

Remember your main action would be to reduce over all body inflammation.

For this I call upon the digestive system .

now PROBIOTICS get a turn .

(running out of time)

read what the Arthritis Foundation has to say about probiotics and arthritis Probiotics | Healthy Eating | Arthritis Diet

research is growing every single year --- hard to keep up with all the journals

This is an experpt from The Gastrointestinal Microbiome and Musculoskeletal Diseases study
(there was a summit on the microbiome back in March/April)

xxxx again emphasising the importance of the body and its chemistry as a whole--
glucosamine needs probiotics xxx

bacterial species within the gut do ferment and metabolize glucosamine [94–99]. A large number of
GIT microbiota genera and species are known to ferment glucosamine, including several Lactobacilli
strains (i.e., L. casei, L. plantarum, L. acidophilus, and L. leichmanii), Streptococcus, Staphylococcus,
Leuconostoc [96], Escherichia coli, Enterococcus faecalis, Proteus vulgaris and Bacillus coli (from
which E. coli is a descendant) [97,98]. Bacteria utilize amino sugars by acquiring them or synthesizing
them to form peptidoglycans and lipopolysaccharides in the bacterial cell wall. GIT mucosal cells
utilize glucosamine to synthesize and secrete the protective mucins along the whole length of the GIT
tract [100]. The biosynthetic and degradative steps for glucosamine in bacteria are subjected to tight
regulation [101] that leads to sufficient glucosamine biosynthesis for bacterial cell growth and
survival [95,102–104]. It is suggested that any benefit demonstrated by glucosamine for osteoarthritic
joints may be secondary to its effects on non-articular tissues, such as GIT barrier function and
bacterial growth [105]. This potentially qualifies it as a prebiotic substance. Similarly, in limited
studies examining the effect of green-lipped mussel GLM on GIT bacteria, suggest that GLM
influence GIT bacterial profiles [13] and the anti-inflammatory effect exhibited by the GLM may
involve its modulation first by gut commensal bacteria prior to inducing a local anti-inflammatory
effect that spreads extra-intestinally to the joints.
 
#33 ·
Oh dear. Thanks carmen. My brains all mushy. Thanks for your time a lot what a great person to have around you are with all your knowledge and help!

I to be honest was just reading about green lipped muscle. Do you personally think it helps woth joints?

I took a note regarding the serrapaptase
 
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