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Giardia

10K views 41 replies 12 participants last post by  LuvShepherds 
#1 ·
My 4.5 month old puppy has been battling Giardia for the last few weeks. As soon as he finishes his medicine from the doctor it is back. We have been picking up the feces right away and changing his water often. Looking for advice. Did anyone else's GS battle this for a few weeks? Suggestions?
 
#5 ·
Some giardia doesn't respond well to metronidazole. Most vets are opting for metronidazole and 5-7 day course of fenbendazole (panacur brand name) concurrently. Depending on the dogs natural immunity this should knock it out. Make sure to support the dog's gut health with beneficial bacteria during and after treatment, ask your vet about bene-bac or other prescription probiotics and then after care for G/I flora.

Then clean, clean, clean and clean some more. Bowls, bedding and it's better to be OCD about picking up their stools then not and treating the spot with at least a strong bleach solution and/or dessicant like diamotaceous earth or Sweet PDZ powder. Bathe the dog right after meds are completed paying special attention to the fur around, under the tail and thighs.

MSM has shown some anti-protozoal activity in animal studies and it's not expensive so check into it as well for preventative measures.

The biggest problem with giardia, especially in moist and/or cooler climates is the cysts (eggs basically) can easily survive for months and re-infect the dogs. So diligent treatment and follow up is necessary to prevent reinfection.

It's definitely one of those things where persistence pays off. Good luck!
 
#7 ·
If it is coming back right after treatments its probably not the medication that is lacking but he is most likely re-infecting himself. The cysts can stay dormant through rain drought moderate heat and moderate cold until they are ingested by the dog. To me it sounds like the medicine works but the pup is some how ingesting more cysts. Once he is off of the medicine the symptoms show back up again. What i had to do when my pup kept getting it was throw away all of his soft toys toss all his bedding and blankets. Luckily we dont have carpeting. Everything that was not tossed was cleaned with a bleach water solution. I wiped his butt with wet wipes after every poop and clorox wiped his crate every day. He also got a bath every 3 days for the 10 days of pancure. We also stopped going to the grass he used to poop in when he was infected. I believe that was everything we did.
Good luck!
 
#8 ·
If you are only treating one dog I suggest panacur from the vet, that way you're getting the proper dosage.

Metronidazole: The drug itself has been around for many years and properly administered by a veterinarian D.V.M. most dogs do just fine on it. My dogs have never had a bad reaction to metronidazole but it was administered by a vet and I carefully followed the instructions in giving it to my dogs. Per the vets I've spoken with the side effect problems often have to do with incorrect dosages.

Metronidazole is not 100% effective against giardia.

Metronidazole is the most commonly used extra-label therapy; however, efficacies as low as 50% to 60% are reported. Safety concerns also limit the use of metronidazole in dogs and cats
Giardia | CAPC Vet

It does, however, have a soothing and anti-inflammatory effect on the GI tract and in combination with fenbendazole is a good combination when dosed properly under the care of a veterinarian.

I've also read/heard people go ballistic about metronidazole destroying the beneficial gut bacteria. I've found that most vets are prescribing bene-bac or forti-flora and advising ongoing probiotic supplementation to alleviate that issue.

I really think metro gets a bad rap because people mis-use it, over use it or don't follow instructions.
 
#10 ·
If you are only treating one dog I suggest panacur from the vet, that way you're getting the proper dosage.

Metronidazole: The drug itself has been around for many years and properly administered by a veterinarian D.V.M. most dogs do just fine on it. My dogs have never had a bad reaction to metronidazole but it was administered by a vet and I carefully followed the instructions in giving it to my dogs. Per the vets I've spoken with the side effect problems often have to do with incorrect dosages.

Metronidazole is not 100% effective against giardia.

Giardia | CAPC Vet

It does, however, have a soothing and anti-inflammatory effect on the GI tract and in combination with fenbendazole is a good combination when dosed properly under the care of a veterinarian.

I've also read/heard people go ballistic about metronidazole destroying the beneficial gut bacteria. I've found that most vets are prescribing bene-bac or forti-flora and advising ongoing probiotic supplementation to alleviate that issue.

I really think metro gets a bad rap because people mis-use it, over use it or don't follow instructions.
The correct dose for panacur 10% solution (Safe Guard Goat Wormer) can be found on the internet (1ml/5 lbs). Legally, the product is not registered for giardia in dogs in the US and neither is Metronidazole.

I do not use Metronidazole even if the vet recommends it. The risk can happen even if you follow labled directions To think reactions can only happen because of misuse is not very logical.
 
#17 ·
It's one thing to give advice, another to tell someone to ignore the treatment their vet has prescribed. I had a dog I got from someone else with a resistant strain of Giardia. The vet told me the original owner tried to treat with Panacur instead of the proper treatment and created a strain that wouldn't respond. It took months to get rid of it.
 
#18 ·
The OP asked for suggestions. Her current treatment was not working. Facts are facts - in the US, liquid Panacur and metro. are not labeled for dogs. So any use of those two,products is done off label. It is not an uncommon practice. I gave the rate based on consultation with 3 different vets. The chemistry of a 10% solution is the same no matter where it comes from. And the dosage is based on weight. And if you read the label, the product is given to dogs with Giardia in other countries such as the UK. I was merely making a suggestion that has worked for me in the past under similar situations. The OP can determine if she wants to follow my suggestion or not.
 
#24 ·
The reason the strains are getting stronger is because people are not following treatment protocols and just getting advice off the internet from people who may or may not know what they are doing or what the latest science is. That is the irony here.

I've dealt with the drug resistant strain of giardia being brought on to my property.

It's not fun, it's a lot of work and it was expensive.

People try to cut corners. They use off label products incorrectly to save a few dollars. In the end it becomes more expensive.

This has nothing to do with doc personally so you guys don't need to jump in a defend him. :|

I'm disputing a statement with information I've gleaned through personal experience working with two veterinarians, one of which is holistic and looking at reputable sites online such as the CDC link I posted earlier.
 
#25 ·
Back on topic. I noticed in the CAPC link I posted earlier that Drontal Plus maybe effective as well. This is only available via prescription through a D.V.M. Unfortunately it's pricey but it's better the giving fenbendazole for extremely long periods of time. I hope I don't have to deal with this infernal bug again (cause I have been super diligent in care and cleaning and supporting GI health) but if it rears it's ugly head again I'll be willing to give the Drontal Plus a try, with my vet's blessings of course.

A combination of febantel, pyrantel pamoate, and praziquantel (DrontalPlus) is effective in treating Giardia in dogs when administered daily for 3 days using the dose bands indicated on the DrontalPlus label.
Giardia | CAPC Vet
 
#27 ·
Back on topic. I noticed in the CAPC link I posted earlier that Drontal Plus maybe effective as well. This is only available via prescription through a D.V.M. Unfortunately it's pricey but it's better the giving fenbendazole for extremely long periods of time. I hope I don't have to deal with this infernal bug again (cause I have been super diligent in care and cleaning and supporting GI health) but if it rears it's ugly head again I'll be willing to give the Drontal Plus a try, with my vet's blessings of course.



Giardia | CAPC Vet
We were given a second medication. I didn't keep track of the name. It was apparently very strong. The second fecal float came back positive with a high visual count. But the vet said at that point, anything further would be dangerous, so no more meds were prescribed. It's possible the medication kept working after the dose was completed. I'm not saying the dog wasn't treated, in fact it was, but on a different timetable than I expected. Giardia is very common in street and shelter dogs, and if not treated properly, can get much worse.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Another thing, some dogs will just get a mild case of it, a few loose stools every couple of months, they end up being carriers. Some strains of giardia can overwhelm the dogs GI pretty quickly. I went from having perfectly healthy, perfect pooping dogs (and I'm a horse person so I'm a poop watcher), dogs that never had a single problem with internal parasites for the last 10 years on this property to 4 dogs with uncontrollable yellow, musosy, unformed stools. Literally from within 48 hours. Another person I know got one of these strains and waited a bit too long, their dog had blood in the stool and took longer to recover. So unless you've dealt with this personally it may be hard to understand why I say don't mess around with giardia.

I got my dogs to the vet quickly because I knew something wasn't right and I did not need to be fooling around with this.

The two big issues with giardia, drug resistant strains AND the cysts are very durable in the environment. Per the CDC even bleach sometimes will not kill the cysts. It's actually a pretty aggressive, persistent, determined bug. Also, ELISA is a good test but still gives false negatives. It depends on how the dog's immune system is responding at the time of the test. Sometimes it takes time for it to become detectable and also time for the test to show negative after the giardia is cleared from the system. It's got some grey areas yet, the ELISA test.

I totally support holistic approaches, gut flora is VERY important I agree as a preventative, but the landscape is changing as the pathogens we are dealing with become resistant to treatment and can overwhelm even healthy animals.
 
#31 ·
Gwenhwyfair, I don't need to defend anyone.. I can state my thoughts and opinions which may or may not agree with whomever you agree or don't agree with.. You've voiced your thoughts with some validity.. Doc voiced his with some validity... People have the option to read what is there, research and make their choices as they deem appropriate... I do agree that drugs in general are overused.. Most often by vets and Dr's, imo... They are tossed out there for the slightest thing that probably would have resolved itself on its own.. Saw this amplified on a stud farm where we had broodmare and foals getting antibiotics for the slightest sniffle... Anyhow, giardia is a big issue and nothing to play around with, that I think we can all agree on..
 
#32 ·
When you wrote "I appreciate Doc's ideas" but not mine....well...

The over use is sometimes due to being over prescribed but also people getting OTC and using them improperly.

This is why I never encourage people to get X livestock dewormer and use it, especially on the internet. It compounds the problem because we don't really know what's going on and if the person understands and will follow through or even grab the wrong dewormer off the farm supply shelf.

A vet tech told me recently they've seen an uptick in dogs OD on ivermectin because people grab horse dewormer and use it.

In blue :thumbup:
 
#33 ·
I use my phone 100% of the time.. Once I hit the respond icon, I get a blank page and cannot see any of the posts above.. So it all comes down to memory of who said what and how easy it is to remember names and events... Since user names are often symbols and meaningless (for remembering) except to the user, I don't usually state more than one name, if that while replying..

Yes, ivermectin od in dogs using horse dewormer (eye roll)... A dewormer set by 100's of #, no easy way to accurately dose a dog, and a plunger set to easily administer the whole tube for finicky horses... Not ideal...
 
#34 ·
"Some giardia doesn't respond well to metronidazole. Most vets are opting for metronidazole and 5-7 day course of fenbendazole (panacur brand name) concurrently. Depending on the dogs natural immunity this should knock it out. Make sure to support the dog's gut health with beneficial bacteria during and after treatment, ask your vet about bene-bac or other prescription probiotics and then after care for G/I flora. "

Through all of your personal testimonies and editorials about what should and shouldn't be done by individuals in forums on the internet, I assume your suggestion to the OP is quoted above?
 
#35 ·
Since no one answering this thread is a vet, everyone has the right to state their opinion and experience in treating giardia. Then it is up to the OP to do their research and talk to their vet. Enough of the personal insults and back and forth bickering.

ADMIN
 
#36 ·
Like Doc, I have found the metronidazole useless and have had the best results treating for 10-14 days with fenbendazole (using Safeguard for goats). I also keep it on hand just in case. If treating one dog, using the panacur through the vet isn't a big deal, but when treating 5-6 adult dogs the cost difference is significant. My old vet would sell me the panacur in bulk if they had it available, but when they didn't they recommended the Safeguard. Dosage is exactly the same.

I have also seen adverse reactions to metronidazole and, while I might use it in an adult dog, will not use it in puppies.
 
#39 ·
Also, there was a vaccine for giardia. I recall hearing a lot of negative chatter about it on the internet a few years ago. It's since been pulled off the market. I asked my vet what his experiences were with the vaccine and he said it had helped several dogs in his practice with chronic giardia.
 
#41 · (Edited)
In an ironic turn of events, some dogs I was caring for got severe diarrhea last week. Vet prescribed metro and proviable pre-probiotics. I followed the Vet's instructions to the letter. Cleared the diarrhea in 12 hours, which was important as there was a concern about dehydration.

I'd also like to add something in general. One thing I get a lot of on this site has been that I don't have enough *experience*. I would venture to say that working in the animal care industry for 10 plus years I have had more hands on experience with caring for more dogs of all breeds then some of the breeders on this site. Probably some of the people who do a lot of rescue have me beat in the sheer numbers department.

I am always careful to defer to breeders (well the ones that breed and compete to the standard anyways) when it comes to genetics, dominant traits, drives, IPO training and so on. I am always careful to not wade too deeply in training, as I've said, I'm not a trainer and I'm not going to play one on the internet (hence the reason when people come on here with aggression issues my first and foremost suggestion is to find a trainer).

It's not my opinion about metronidazole, it's a well tested drug which when used properly is safe and can be efficacious. Veterinarians with a heck uva a lot more experience and schooling still prescribe it if they conclude it's needed. It's helped my personal dogs more then once over the years and I've seen it work under veterinarian instructions, safely, in my client's dogs many, many times.

Won't always work it depends on several factors, but it's still effective in many cases.
 
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