Giardia rant - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-15-2015, 03:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the frozen tundra
Posts: 678
Default Giardia rant

This is going to be long, so I apologize in advance for that!

Let me start by saying that Bash has giardia. He had been having loose and liquid stool intermittently, but the giardia test always came back negative. When we got him, he was on Fromm Gold. Since he obviously didn't have any parasites (ughhh), we switched him to Fromm Four Start Grain-Free Game Bird food, to see if it was the grains bothering him. We saw some improvement, but he was still having loose stool. We waited about a month and switched him to Farmina. We saw immediate improvements on the Farmina. We thought it was just a food issue, and that we had solved it, until he started having loose stool after car rides. Our vets convinced us it was probably just stress, and that he would probably grow out of it. After another few weeks of intermittent diarrhea, we brought another sample in for testing, and low and behold, he has giardia.

Our vets gave him metronidazole. We protested a little, as I'd read it isn't very effective at treating giardia, plus it's an antibiotic, so we really didn't want to destroy his GI tract. The vet persisted that this was the best course of action, so we relented. I wish we hadn't. The metronidaloze completely screwed up Bash's GI tract. He has had liquid diarrhea since he started the medication. The vet told us to add rice to his kibble, so we did. Now he has liquid diarrhea with rice in it. We asked if we could have panacur, they told us to wait until Thursday and see if the rice helps. He's been on the rice since last Thursday, with no improvement. His last dose of the metro was last Thursday, as well. How long do they expect us to keep trying things that aren't working?

We have him on a good probiotic (Sunday Sundae). We've tried Kocci Free (no improvement). We've added pumpkin to his meals with no improvement. As I mentioned earlier, he's on Farmina and was actually doing pretty well on that before we started him on metronidazole.

Is my vet insane? Or is this common practice? We've never had any issues with this vet before, and we've been going there for years. I guess I don't understand how they have no problem prescribing metro, which isn't very effective and causes lots of problems, but they don't want to give panacur, even though it is considered safe and more effective against giardia. Should I just order the panacur from the internet and give him treatment on my own? I need advice!
__________________
Nikki

Owned by:
Roxy the Wonder Pittie- rescued 8/09
Sebastian (GSD)- b. 10/24/14
GypsyGhost is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-15-2015, 05:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Momto2GSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Hey Gypsy!
That's awful!

If you want to try something natural, here are some suggestions:

You could try is Slippery Elm (purchased from a local health food store not GNC) given an hour or so before eating will coat and calm his stomach and prepare it for food. This is used short term.

Have you considered that chicken or flax seed in kibbles could be causing your dogs problem? It does with many. Read the labels carefully to make sure there isn't chicken or chicken fat somewhere in the list. My boy is sensitive to flax seed!

Also, be careful with treats and the ingredients they contain. Choose high quality (non grain) or make your own.

This is the recipe my holistic vet suggests: Boneless, skinless de-fatted chicken breast or turkey breast, or Ground Round Steak, boiled, grease rinsed off, shredded and cooled.. Mix 50/50 (or 1:1) with canned pureed PLAIN pumpkin. Again, adjust amount per day fed for your size dog, and divide into 3 or 4 smaller meals. No kibble during this time. Keep them on this for a few days then very slowly add a small amount of kibble per day, increasing as you watch for loose stool. Cut back kibble to previous amount if stool loosens up....this is called "bowel tolerance". Keep at that rate for a day or so, then increase kibble again.


Many on this blog have given their dogs Kocci Free for Giardia/Coccideia (all herbals) with great success! I'm wondering if you needed another round of it or giving a longer period of time?
For myself and another member here, I found that adding a Homeopathic called "Bowl Pathogen Nosode" (Aids in enhancement of immune response to typical bowel pathogens.) and a good quality MSM really works well if it is a tough case.

Bowel Pathogen Nosode:
Amazon Amazon
This is given separately from the Kocci Free and the MSM. Homeopathic's are "given in a clean mouth" meaning no food or water 30 minutes before or after dosing.

MSM (an organic sulphur) makes the bowel "a very unfriendly place for parasites". There are very different grades of msm. I feel after researching, this one is the best! My husband and I take it too for our joints! Read about the certifications here and on Bergstrom's other pages: http://www.bergstromnutrition.com/our-company/certifications
http://www.bergstromnutrition.com/pu...esale-partners . On that page is a company called Kala who distributes it. They are great! I get a 10# container. I give it every day as our property is full of wild life. This can be sprinkled on to his food.

Feel free to pm me if you decide to go this route and need help.

Hope your boy gets better soon!
Moms
Momto2GSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 05:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Findlay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 319
Default

How does a dog contract Giardia?
Findlay is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 05:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the frozen tundra
Posts: 678
Default

Thanks for the reply, Moms. We did the Kocci free for ten days, 4x per day, as directed on the bottle. It was always given 30 minutes before a meal, or at least two hours after a meal. Of course, he was on the metronidazole at the same time, so maybe that messed things up.

His food has no chicken, chicken fat or flax. He's on the Farmina N&D Herring formula. I've been feeding him three times per day, 1 cup each time. I think I will try your boiled meat and pumpkin recipe and see what happens.

Both of our dogs eat high quality grain-free kibble and grain-free treats.

I just want Bash to be done with this. I feel so bad for him.
__________________
Nikki

Owned by:
Roxy the Wonder Pittie- rescued 8/09
Sebastian (GSD)- b. 10/24/14
GypsyGhost is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 05:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the frozen tundra
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Findlay View Post
How does a dog contract Giardia?
Drinking standing water or eating wild animal poop. We believe Bash ate rabbit poop when he was younger, thus contracting giardia.
__________________
Nikki

Owned by:
Roxy the Wonder Pittie- rescued 8/09
Sebastian (GSD)- b. 10/24/14
GypsyGhost is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 05:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
llombardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 10,537
Default

Try lowering the food to 2 cups a day? If mine get any more then 2 cups of the same food, they get loose stool. Apollo can't even look at and he gets icky poop
__________________
Misty- Samoyed Mix, Tannor- Golden Retriever CGC
Robyn- GSD CGC, TC, Midnite-GSD CGC,TC, Brennan-Golden Retriever CGC, Batman-Husky/Greyhound , Apollo-GSD
llombardo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 05:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anubis_Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,018
Default

Guardia I'd endemic in colorado, and it is estimated 10% of dogs have it without being clinical.

chronic diarrhea could definitely be a whole other problem - IBD, allergies, etc...
__________________
~Emergency Vet Tech

Berlin vom Spartanville 1/13/13
Zeke
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
5/25/07 - 2/9/15
Luther
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2008 - 7/23/12

"Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." - Max Von Stephanitz
Anubis_Star is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 06:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the frozen tundra
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis_Star View Post
Guardia I'd endemic in colorado, and it is estimated 10% of dogs have it without being clinical.

chronic diarrhea could definitely be a whole other problem - IBD, allergies, etc...
His case of giardia seems pretty consistent with it being active. He had solid poop for a while after we got him, then we think he ate rabbit poop, then he started having problems with diarrhea. The stool sample that finally tested positive for it was "fresh" and the consistency of pudding. I appreciate that this could be lots of things, but I truly think it is still active giardia.

Edited to add: unless screwing up his GI tract with metronidazole cause him to have IBD or something similar, that is.
__________________
Nikki

Owned by:
Roxy the Wonder Pittie- rescued 8/09
Sebastian (GSD)- b. 10/24/14
GypsyGhost is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 06:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Magwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,812
Default

Some vets give metro because it will get "other stuff" too, in addition to giardia. I'm often surprised how many of them prescribe it in the first instance for giardia -- I prefer doing Panacur, as it seems to work well if you do it long enough (5 days minimum -- we often do 7 days in rescue because it's SO safe, and 7 days also clears lung worms...which are emerging in our area and hard to spot until they are clinical and deadly). It is also is tolerated pretty well (though some dogs experience loss of appetite on it). It's also pretty cheap.

I think it would be worth having a heart to heart with your vet, and get his reasoning for using metro over Panacur. I think these conversations tend to be very illuminating -- there may be a reason based on what he saw in your dog.

Last edited by Magwart; 06-15-2015 at 06:21 PM.
Magwart is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2015, 06:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the frozen tundra
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
Try lowering the food to 2 cups a day? If mine get any more then 2 cups of the same food, they get loose stool. Apollo can't even look at and he gets icky poop
We did reduce his food for a while, no dice. That was before we switched to Farmina. Switching to Farmina helped so much. Then we ruined everything with the metro. Womp womp.
__________________
Nikki

Owned by:
Roxy the Wonder Pittie- rescued 8/09
Sebastian (GSD)- b. 10/24/14
GypsyGhost is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what the 2x4 is made of.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum