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Snores or wheezes

11K views 98 replies 9 participants last post by  lalachka 
#1 ·
Hi, my doggie snores or wheezes. I can't exactly describe this noise. He's been doing it for a year or so, like right after eating or sometimes laying down and awake and doing it

Since he's always done it I figured it's something they do but then he did it in front of my friend that also has a shepherd and she freaked out. So now I'm freaking out.

Anyone has a shepherd that regularly makes these sounds but is otherwise normal? What can it be? Should I go to the vet?
 
#2 ·
Some dogs simply snore. Could also be something like a reverse sneeze.

I wouldnt run off to the vet if the dog is otherwise fine. But I would get a video of it, and next time you're at the vet show them the video and ask them about it.

Snoring can be a concern, elongated soft pallet that could cause breathing issues, especially in dogs that are sick and potentially already having problems.
 
#8 ·
Snoring can be a concern, elongated soft pallet that could cause breathing issues, especially in dogs that are sick and potentially already having problems.
Could heart worms cause a dog to snore and wheeze?
 
#4 ·
I believe wheezing/coughing could be related to heart problems.

Best get to vet
 
#6 ·
Good call on taking him in...

Warden does the reverse sneeze sometimes, the first time he did it was in the middle of the night and almost gave us a heart attack. Vet says his heart and lungs sound good, so I dont think it means anything, but it doesnt sound like your recording of Boomer!

Hopefully he's ok!!
 
#9 ·
I tested him a few months ago and then had him on preventative for a few months until 2 months ago I decided to stop giving it. So I doubt it

I made an appt with a new vet for Saturday. Let's see how that goes. I'm afraid they will just say I need X-rays and I don't think I'm ready to put him under. I've been wanting to get his hips done and haven't because I don't have a vet I completely trust and anesthesia is a serious thing

Also, he won't stay there without me. To leave him there without me would be making him to go through huge stress, he will scream, lunge and cry.

Not looking forward to the appt. every appt I ever had I got the impression that the vets are guessing just as I am
 
#11 ·
Why would he need to to be under to do chest xrays? I almost never have to sedate dogs for xrays, unless they're REALLY bad.

And yes, to truly make sure nothing his wrong with his lungs and heart, he should have xrays.

As well, medicine is largely guessing, based on symptoms, until diagnostic tests like xrays can help you figure out the problem. But they aren't guessing like you are. They have actual medical training.


From your comment, maybe vets aren't the problem. Maybe you're just being too hard on them and not giving them a chance. Medicine is hard. Diseases don't have nice easy to read labels on them. Sometimes we don't know what's going on and we treat as best we can. You can't walk in to every appointment thinking vets are idiots and suck, and expect it to go well. Trust that they actually might know what they're doing. You know with that 10 years of schooling and on the job experience and all.

Also are you SURE he'll scream and cry? Not saying you need to leave him by any means but 9 times out of 10 dogs do just fine. Or they whine for 5 minutes and then do just fine. In fact most owners stress their dogs out and the dogs do better away from the owner.

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#12 ·
Last time I went to a vet for breathing loudly she offered an X-ray and said he'd need to be put under, that's why I'm saying this.

I'm not hard on the vets, I haven't found a vet I like and trust. My first office (haven't seen the same vet twice) was just a money grubbing business. Forever pushy selling stuff, insist that purina is good dog food, either don't know what they're doing or do know but don't care as long as they make money (like giving him a bunch of vaccines on the same day) and and on and on

Second was inconvenient to get to but I was willing to take the trip if I liked her. She was snippy about something a minute after I walked in. It was uncalled for, I didn't appreciate it.

Third office is OK. Wait 3 hours and get a vet rushing through the visit.

I'm looking for a vet who will know my dog and care about his well being and not them making money at the expense of his health.
The first office was ready to put my 7 month old on life time monthly allergy shots. Do you know how many issues he would've developed from being bombarded with all this garbage all his life?

And from all my visits so far i did get the impression that they're guessing to a large extent. I haven't found a good vet. I'm not sure why this is getting such a reaction from you.

Yes, I'm sure he will scream. He does it now, even outside. People look at us thinking we are killing him. It's really bad. I also can't leave the house unless I feed him right before I step out.

But even if that wasn't the case I still wouldn't leave him at a vet. If it came down to it i'd keep looking for a vet that will let me be there for whatever he needs done.
 
#13 ·
I wasn't making it a large reaction, simply stating unless he refuses to be restrained he would not need sedation for xrays, and just to walk into your appointment with an open mind and not instantly expect the vet to suck.

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#15 ·
Overprotective can be a hard thing to work with I'm the veterinary field. Just be nice, if you don't think you agree with what they're saying ask lots of questions so hopefully you can understand why they're saying that

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#16 ·
I just came back. I'm always very nice and polite, I'm not happy with them but they don't know that, I don't act like it.

Anyway, same old, same old. Probably infection, here's some antibiotics.

I'm not giving it to him, if this was an infection it wouldn't be there for a year. Do you see why I get frustrated? Every time I go to the vet I get some weird answers and I'm always under the impressions they're guessing to a large degree.

Good for you guys if yu have these amazing vets, I'm having a problem having one I like.

Anyway, going back next week for X-rays. It was me that brought up the possibility of an X-ray and it being his heart. His guess was that it's an infection.

But whatever, might as well finally get his hips done and the heart and lungs.
 
#17 ·
Also, asked him what he thinks about raw feeding. Doesn't like the idea (I can live with that as long as my raw feeding doesn't get blamed for all his problems) and said they dogs might have a problem digesting raw meat.

First time I heard this one. I think i'd be more comfortable hearing the usual bacteria reason.

I don't know, not thrilled. Very nice guy. Am I asking for too much?
 
#19 ·
Also, asked him what he thinks about raw feeding. Doesn't like the idea (I can live with that as long as my raw feeding doesn't get blamed for all his problems) and said they dogs might have a problem digesting raw meat.

First time I heard this one. I think i'd be more comfortable hearing the usual bacteria reason.

I don't know, not thrilled. Very nice guy. Am I asking for too much?

Nope!

I think if this is going on for a year, they would have suggested some type of blood work, x-rays and advised of specialist if something sounded off....congestion or arrhythmia, something...any comments on what the doc heard?

But then again, if they do that they miss an opportunity to pad the bill....Take this pill and come back in 2 weeks and then we will do diagnostics.

Gotta pay for that 10 yrs of schooling;):)

If it is an infection. Then what kind of infection, bacterial pneumonia? Heartworm...could it be lung flukes?

But yep...give an antibiotic, kill off the GI tract bacteria, have your dog pooping fluids and coming down with yeast infection. And then they can say it's the RAW and here's some science diet.
 
#18 ·
Did he see the video? Maybe, just maybe, he does not really think it is an issue? Maybe he saw an overly anxious owner and just wanted to appease her? Not a great thing in a Vet, but not the worst either.

Does your dog get overtired easily, have trouble catching his breath, have color change in his gums and tongue when having the episode of snoring? Make noises when panting or regular breathing? What is the dogs head position when making these noises? Outstretched in front of him, tucked into his body, flat on the floor? Does the dog seem in distress?

If I had just seen the video, I would have said your dog is snoring. Some dogs snore. But you said he makes the same sound when he is awake? So just trying to figure out other things. It does not sound(to my non vet, but vet tech ears) like a heart problem breathing, it sounds more upper airway to me.


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#20 ·
Did he see the video? Maybe, just maybe, he does not really think it is an issue? Maybe he saw an overly anxious owner and just wanted to appease her? Not a great thing in a Vet, but not the worst either.

Does your dog get overtired easily, have trouble catching his breath, have color change in his gums and tongue when having the episode of snoring? Make noises when panting or regular breathing? What is the dogs head position when making these noises? Outstretched in front of him, tucked into his body, flat on the floor? Does the dog seem in distress?

If I had just seen the video, I would have said your dog is snoring. Some dogs snore. But you said he makes the same sound when he is awake? So just trying to figure out other things. It does not sound(to my non vet, but vet tech ears) like a heart problem breathing, it sounds more upper airway to me.


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Fungal? Polyps?

Do antibiotics work for...?Nope.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hi, my doggie snores or wheezes. I can't exactly describe this noise. He's been doing it for a year or so, like right after eating or sometimes laying down and awake and doing it

Since he's always done it I figured it's something they do but then he did it in front of my friend that also has a shepherd and she freaked out. So now I'm freaking out.

Anyone has a shepherd that regularly makes these sounds but is otherwise normal? What can it be? Should I go to the vet?
Wondering if could be mild form of mega-e?
in that case abx. would be pre-emptive in case of aspiration into lungs and bacterial infection as result
 
#24 ·
Hazarding a guess and NOT being a doctor, something with the soft palate. But without responses to my questions I don't know. Nor have I seen the dog, heard it when awake, or know if it's actually an issue. Only the OP can tell us that. For all we know it only happens when the dog is laying on its side prone. Could just be that??? I don't know. I am not a doctor. But I am also not one to completely hate an entire profession and say very nasty about them as a whole. So.


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#27 ·
I don't hate the profession. When did I say that? I just said that I had a feeling I was going to go in and not get answers just as I did every other time.


I just said I'm having a problem finding a vet a like. I can list all the dumb and dangerous stuff my first office did. They did the most damage because this is my first dog, I went in there blindly trusting everything they say.
After that I've been careful and have been researching everything I've been advised and I'm seeing the same pattern. Drugs, drugs, drugs.

I'm in NYC. Please someone tell me why all vets push year round heartworm prevention. You guys do know that to get heartworm, among other things, the temperature must stay at 70 (I think or something around that. Warm enough temperature) for 10 days including nights. Once it goes down even for a half hour heartworm can't develop.
And it also takes about 6 months for the entire cycle. So wouldn't it make more sense just have all dogs tested every 6 months and if positive then start the drugs?

The heartworm preventative isn't a preventative. It just kills heartworm. Our dogs get pesticides for no reason.

I'm just tired of the constant drug pushing. And they guilt and scare people into drugging their dogs.
 
#36 ·
Keep in mind, working only emergency medicine I don't see a ton of mega e. I GUESS it could cause a wheezing although I can't imagine how. The trachea would really be the cause if it's not higher up in the larynx or soft pallet, or lower down in the lungs. Middle causes of wheezing you normally hear tends to be collapsing trachea in toy dogs. I don't know if mega e could cause pressure on the trachea and cause narrowing? The trachea is a pretty hard firm structure I would think not. I guess theoretically some kind of long term tracheal irritation like an infection combined with stimulation on the trachea by am enlarged esophagus could potentially cause respiratory sounds?

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#35 ·
That's just exactly what I'm talking about. The OP is getting so frustrated about all these things, the abx (which no I don't agree with necessarily but i wasn't there), some unknown injection, HW preventative, but has obviously never simply asked. You can't bottle in your frustration until it explodes and you hate the vet.

As far as the HW preventative, as an example on my end, simply ask, I'll try to explain ad best i can why you can or can not do certain things for the best health of the dog.

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#37 ·
Eko had a weird breathing thing that sounded like he was congested or snoring when he was sitting, went to the vet and she said his lungs and heart were fine, after a while it went away. Xena had a cough when she got excited from the time I got her (14 weeks) til about last December, several vets were stumped as to why, it also went away on its own. One of those crazy things?
 
#43 ·
I hope so and I think so too. He's had it for a while, a year or so. I freaked out the first time, saw that he was fine afterwards and then figured it's one of their noises. Gsds are said to be very noisy, like that they make all kinds of sounds. And mine is def like that. He makes many sounds, very talkative.

And then my friend heard it and said her shepherd doesn't do that. So I got worried

The fact that he's fine otherwise and that it's been going on for while makes me feel a little better. But it can still be something serious, just one of those things that take a while to develop.
Hopefully this is not our case
 
#38 ·
I don't want the OP to think I'm coming down on them, I just want them to ask these questions to the vet instead of getting frustrated outside of the office :(

Trust me, I know there are PLENTY of horrible vets. I'm spoiled that I work with board certified specialists and emergency doctors that I hands down think are some of the best in the state. My standard of medicine is much higher than most GPs. I see some of the things regular vets do and just think "dear god NO". Even the doctors at my normal clinic I work part time at... I wouldn't want them dealing with health problems in my dogs. Physicals, dentals, that's it.

I don't like telling people I think a lot of GP vets suck because unlike them, I have the qualified medical experience to come to that decision. But there has to be some sort of middle ground.

I worked with an old internist that was very lazy. Everything just got 10 antibiotics. Toy poodle came in, 14 yrs old, coughing and chest problems. But it was fed a raw diet so she just threw a million antibiotics at it. Never did a full work up (Because toy poodles aren't prone to heart problems and everything going else under the sun....). That is lazy, but you need to question that instead of buying the pills and just walking out the door.

I think this doctor should of at least offered chest xrays. But maybe they weren't overly concerned and offered the antibiotics as an appeasement solution. Not a practice I agree with, but I would of asked them why antibiotics and voiced my concern. If they could have a civil conversation with me, good, I like them. If i feel like I'm hitting a wall and getting no good answers, then I decide they suck and I walk out that door without wasting my money

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#40 ·
You're extremely lucky if you have a vet like that. Based on my experience and the stuff I read on the net, finding a good vet is very hard.

I took the antibiotics knowing that I won't give them. So I didn't ask any questions :)
Why I couldn't just say I won't give them and not waste money - i don't know)))))

But I'm not upset at what happened today, more upset that I still don't have a vet I can go to all the time. I want to stop jumping around already.

I don't take care of myself the way i take care of him. I haven't been to the doctor for a few years.
I want to do the best I can by him in every way.
 
#44 ·
No, you're still not understanding correctly about the HW concern - tonight is slammed at work, numerous critical patients, I will try to explain better in the morning. Long story short, you dont want to ever treat your dog for HW. Treatment, be it 1 heartworm or 10, is way more dangerous than prevention. Catching "early" can mean very little.

Mega E would show up on chest xrays, the esophagus would just look visible and enlarged (Normally the esophagus is not visible on chest films). Doesnt sound like Mega E with lack of other clinical signs but it would show up on chest films

It's only 35-40$ to submit to OFA, and then whatever it costs to have xrays taken by your vet. Dogs usually need to be sedated for OFA. Leerburg has a great article on proper positioning, I will try to post it for you tomorrow as well, or if someone else can tonight.
 
#45 · (Edited)
The temperature thing is still correct though, right? So even if I'm not understanding something, at the very least the 57 temperature must maintain during the 10 days. So IMO an ethical vet would let me know about that. They take the time out to print the scary pics of HW but can't take the time out to educate me and let me make the choice after having all the info?

If they didn't scare me but didn't educate me either i'd be OK with that. But if you're scaring and guilting me into giving the meds but can't let me know that the HW can't develop without the right temp - to me that's unethical.

On to the 6 months.
This page explains it better than I can.
HEARTWORM FACTS, THE TRUTH ABOUT HEARTWORM


Bottom line is that the meds kill of HW at some very early stage. So I can test every month then and just give meds if positive.

Or at the very least only give the meds during the warmer months. Or, some people feel safer doing it all year round and that's also fine.

But I think vets should explain the options and not suggest meds as the only option because it's not


So when I go to a vet and he suggests HW meds or some other meds before knowing what's wrong or push science diet - I lose the interest of asking them anything. What's the point? So I can then argue with them about HW or dog food and put them in an uncomfortable spot?

I don't want to. I just go on looking.
 
#47 ·
Once again, no. You do NOT want to kill an adult heartworm in your dog. And if your dog tests positive it could have numerous adult heartworms by then. As well the test only detects antigens given off by FEMALE heartworms. So theoretically your dog could have heartworms but only males.

Not only could there already be irreparable heart damage but adult heartworms are large, dead bodies get thrown out into the blood stream, could cause strokes, clots, often times they clog in the lungs and part of the lung will die. Your dog could very easily die. Treating heartworm disease is no easy thing.


I haven't read that article yet. I will tomorrow and respond better, just woke up for work, it's been a crazy weekend. But I glance at it. Don't think I'll agree with it. But I'll read it and discuss.

And the temperature thing is wrong. It's 50 degrees but does not have to be 10 days. Most mosquitoes hibernate or die in winter after temperature drops below 50 degrees but there are some species, I have the list at work, that are nicknamed snow mosquitoes because they can become active any time it's above 50 degress. Gotta go to work. But I'll explain better tomorrow

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#46 ·
Thank you for the info on mega e and hips. He said he wouldn't sedate him all the way, light sedation but he's awake, just out of it.

I will find the leerburg article, I live in that site lol
I'm surprised I haven't read it yet.

Another worry. How do I know he will do it right?
I just want a vet I can trust)))))
 
#48 ·
I'm not talking about letting it get to the point of it being adult heartworm. I agree that once it's at that stage it's a catastrophe.

What I'm saying is that if I test every few months I will catch it while it's still baby HW. It takes about 6 months for the entire cycle. So to be on the safe side I can do 4.
Bottom line is that there's a way to catch it in the early stages.


As far as temperature, even if it's 50 that still cuts out many months.

Also, it has to be a certain kind of a mosquito. Also, it had to have bitten a dog with HW that have adults of both sex and that already produced babies. Also, once it transmits HW to a dog and the cycle begins in that dog (that takes 4-5 months) that dog has to bitten again by an infected mosquito (mosquito that bit a dog that has a pair of HW that produced babies) otherwise the HW babies will die.

Also, if a dog's immune system is working well it will kill off the HW In the early stages.

Also, we don't have many cases in NYC.


I'd be interested to see what you say after you read the page. If the information on that page is correct then when you weigh the dangers of the drugs and the chance of getting HW - it makes no sense to take the drugs.
Maybe people in HW infested areas would want to give their dogs the drugs for the warmer months but for everyone else it's just another chemical to add to all the garbage out dogs are getting.

Again, personal decision. But i'd appreciate a vet giving me all the facts.
 
#50 ·
I'm not talking about letting it get to the point of it being adult heartworm. I agree that once it's at that stage it's a catastrophe.
Again, what do you think the test tests for?

You do not understand heartworm infection.

The test can only detect ADULT female heartworms that are releasing antigens from within the canine heart. It does not detect the baby larva, the microfilaria, that are in the blood stream. Which is why you give heartworm preventative, to kill off any microfilaria in the blood stream before it matures as heartworms in the heart.

If you have a positive test, it's because you have ADULT female heartworms established in the heart
 
#49 ·
Also, if the article is right then the temperature is not about mosquitos surviving, it's about HW development inside the mosquito. And that cycle needs 57 degrees for at least 10 days. They say it's really 14 days and the temperature can be a few degrees higher for them to die.
 
#51 ·
Some stuff in the article I can't agree or disagree with as I can find no other appropriate articles with a quick internet research. I have other resources at home with access to veterinary papers.

I disagree with a lot of what it says though, and you're misinterpreting it incorrectly as well.

Most mosquito species in American are appropriate hosts. The three main species I mentioned before that are often active in winter months once it's above 50 degrees all can pass on HW. Aedes communis, Culiseta inornata, and Anopheles freeborni are all capable of carrying microfilaria and passing them on and are all known to be active once the weather hits 50 degrees. These are all species found in the northern US as well. I can't speak as to temperature maturation for microfilaria, but from speaking with my vet on tonight she feels that as long as the mosquito is active, there is the chance to spread it on, but I simply do not know that one.

You mention FEMALE mosquitos, which makes you think that half the mosquitoes that bite you are male. But that is the article you posted trying to pull the wool over your eyes and make it seem less like a threat, vs. yes I agree some websites that make it seem super scary. I bet you didn't know that it's simply females that carry the microfilaria because females are the only gender that feed on blood? Males do not bite anything. They feed on flower nectar. So of course only female mosquitos transmit HW.

Once the microfilaria is in the blood stream of a dog (or cat), they do not need a further bite from a mosquito to mature into adults. It takes roughly 6 months for the microfilaria to mature into adults, but they need no further outside help once they are in the blood. While the microfilaria is in the bloodstream they cause no harm, but once they mature into adults in the heart they can cause severe damage. Yes eventually if new microfilaria are not introduced into the blood stream, the adult heartworms will die off but this can take years, and there can be infestations with hundreds. Again, the only reliable test only detects female ADULTS already in the heart. So damage is already being done.

I would not say a dog with a strong immune system can fight them off, because I've seen plenty of young "healthy" dogs with HW disease, one was a 4 year old german shepherd we treated for 8 months before it still eventually died.

My biggest pet peeve is when everyone accuses vets pushing stuff for the money. Frankly, vets don't make a lot of money. Yes, there are some out there, but for the most part, vets simply follow their education to offer you the best option they feel for your pet. I feel the biggest reason vets push for year round is NOT because of making money, but the opposite, to avoid lawsuits. Owners sue or take you to the boards over EVERYTHING. If a vet didnt recommend you do year round heartworm, and then your dog gets HW in December (rare but I think it could definitely happen), then who are you going to blame?

Vets have to protect outliers. Yes, most dogs will NOT get HW in December. Most mosquitos are dead or hibernating. But a lot of mosquitos hibernate in basements and crawl spaces and what not IN buildings. I don't know about you, but my house never gets below 68 degrees in the winter. There are minor possibilities, yes I agree minor, but still possibilities that dogs could get infected in "winter" months (BTW I checked NY records, every single day in December, January, and February, the 3 coldest months in NY, had record highs in the 60s and 70s, so it could happen. Freak warm front). Vets HAVE to recommend it in the freak possibility that your dog is the rare outlier that gets infected with HW in December.

Not only that, but the common practice of shipping dogs all over the world for "rescues" is a large cause of infestation. Colorado, where I live, NEVER use to have fleas, we NEVER had HW. We did, but minor cases. Now, increased temperatures combined with lots of dogs from out of state (we got a TON of dogs in after hurricane katrina), we see a LOT more cases. Just last year I saw 3 different dogs diagnosed HW positive at my day practice within 1 week, which was VERY unusual and a high number. 1 was a geriatric lab, the other two were middle age dogs.

I don't tell people to do stuff because I could make money off it. In fact I'm very anti-a lot of common stuff in the field. I feed raw, for example. But I recommend the same thing I would do for my own dogs, because I am very educated in veterinary medicine, and I see first hand the consequences of NOT following those recommendations. 1 year old unvaccinated dogs dying of distemper, I've seen it. 4 year old german shepherds dying of heartworm, I've seen it.

ANY article that starts off on a 3 paragraph tangent about how everything we do is just to take your money, I'm not going to take seriously. Because it's offensive. And it's ridiculous. There are horrible vets out there. But there are more good ones. And I think most would recommend it.

Don't give HW if you dont want to, it's your choice. Don't fool yourself into thinking "early" detection is going to do anything though, because "early" detection is still adult infestation in the heart, but your right to make your own calls. And don't blame vets for just following industry standards in preventative medicine.
 
#52 · (Edited)
I think it DOES bring up a good point, if you decide not to give preventative in the winter, just make sure you do give it after a warm spell just in case. I dont see any obvious harm in that and is a good compromise. I use to not give preventative in the winter but like I said recently I've seen more cases in Colorado in recent years, and our winters are very mild now. It will snow one week and be 70 degrees the next, in the middle of january. Here in Colorado, I dont know about NY.

I also will say, I like questions like yours, and I only reply back a lot because it makes me research. I don't do a lot of GP stuff in emergency medicine. So I have to go read and research to refresh my memory, and I like that, it helps me continue to learn and grow as a technician. So I'm really sorry if I seem like I'm being harsh to you because I do not mean to be.
 
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