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-   -   Spay? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/412978-spay.html)

Serbrider 02-18-2014 08:28 PM

Spay?
 
What are y'all's opinions on them?

I am probably going to wait until 6 months for my pup, so I can get her rabies and a microchip at the same type...

But I know some people who will do it for their mixes or rescue pups to assure that their new owners will not even have a chance at breeding them.

My pup is a GSD mix. And I do not want her bred at all, and 6-8 months is ideal for me. So that's what I'm doing.

So... What are y'all's thoughts on juvenile spays and nueters, as in as young as 8 weeks old.


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Lauri & The Gang 02-18-2014 08:34 PM

My sales contract says the puppy CANNOT be spayed or neutered before 1 year of age. They NEED those hormones to finish growing/developing correctly.

There are several studies out that show a link between cancer and early spay/neuter.

llombardo 02-18-2014 08:35 PM

I'm okay with anything over. 4 months , preferably over 6 months. I do think. 8 weeks is to young and it's sad that shelters and rescues have to go to that extreme because some people don't care how many dogs die a year and they feel that is the only way to control the population:(

onyx'girl 02-18-2014 08:36 PM

I am not a fan of early spay/neuter...especially at 8 weeks!
I would also not give the rabies vax at the same time as a surgical procedure...the dog should not be stressed when the vax is given. Both of my females were spayed at 6 months. They are both now getting older and have a bit of incontenence. Not sure if it is due to spaying early. I feed them raw and they aren't overweight.
IF I could do it over, I'd let them go thru a heat cycle and possibly do a tubal ligation instead of a full spay. I'd also do a vasectomy vs a neuter for male. I hope some vets start getting on board with the recent findings and the schools start teaching the procedures.

onyx'girl 02-18-2014 08:50 PM

This video is worth the time to watch it....before you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY

JeanKBBMMMAAN 02-18-2014 08:51 PM

Juvenile spay is 4 months and under I believe.

Before first heat for your mix puppy is fine.

Feed well, exercise, keep her out of the sun for long periods of time without shade/protection from UV, away from lawn chemicals, PVC/vinyl is a good guess to avoid too, feed from quality metal bowls, tick and HW test yearly, train your dog well and happily, always safely contain her in the yard, on walks, in a vehicle, and in the house. - which also means safely containing your stuff, too :), make your vet your partner in your pet's health, do blood work before the spay, and when she's old enough to be a senior, yearly, do lump checks regularly, clean her teeth, spend time with her, and most importantly make sure she has good genetics (which we can't do or know with our mixes but we can always hope!).

I have a pre and post spay checklist when it hits that time if I don't see your thread, PM me.

Serbrider 02-19-2014 12:20 AM

Thanks guys. :) I understand the risks of spaying before the first heat and doing a full spay vs a tubal ligation. My 9 year old dog was spayed at the age of 7 months. we learned later that the vet we went to was NOT known for being good (we had just moved there, and this was in Serbia, so nothing like Angie's list or a way to verify their quality, and those people we did know who had animals didn't use vets, and I was 12 and knew little and my parents knew even less), and he stitched her up improperly, and she bled on and off for about four months out of the sutured area... and he just told us it was normal. In addition to that, the spay was the start of her occasional incontinence. But that experience didn't turn me off to spaying, just that vet. ;)

So, I know things can go wrong. Tubal ligation isn't an option in my location, nor is waiting until after her first cycle, unless I lock her inside the whole time. I live in a pretty rural area and there are a LOT of unfixed males either loose or stray, and they could very easily get into my backyard, or go after me and her while walking and on a leash. Making modifications to my backyard fence isn't allowed with my landlord (I can add a smaller mesh to the inside, but can't build higher or anything along those lines), and I don't have several hundred dollars to spend on an appropriately kennel to house her when she goes outside during that time, especially since it's for one heat cycle and I wouldn't use it any other time.

I feed a balanced raw diet (usually prey model) to all my carnivorous pets. I use only stainless steel bowls. I also only use natural/simple ingredient (as in baking soda and hydrogen peroxide) cleaners for my own health. The backyard is extremely sandy so no lawn to speak off, so no lawn cleaners. The most dangerous chemical-related things in my house are my art supplies, which I keep in one room. On a desk if in use, in drawers on top of said desk or other type shelves if not in use. I can also put up a baby gate if need to be to keep her out of that room, as there's no door to it.

I don't personally plan on working hand in hand with any of the vets in my location on a regular basis. Apart from the first shots, bill of health if I need it, rabies (for legal reasons), bloodwork if it's ever needed, emergencies, and spay/neuter... I do it all myself. I can assure product quality, I have knowledge and experience of how to deal with 95% of things that may arise. So while I would not necessarily recommend my method of veterinary involvement for most dog owners (especially those who are not knowledgeable and experienced or have issues with blood if a small cut happens), it has worked for me. Minimalism. I do my own tests for heartworm. I was trained by the veterinarian I worked for for 2 years how to draw blood safely, and perform intravenous, intramuscular, and subdermal injections. I've never had to perform any kind of teeth cleaning with any of my animals, and while it still could be an option, due to her diet of raw meaty bones and so on, the likelihood is very small.

I just don't trust the vets in this location, pretty much within a 2 hour radius. We're very rural, and while they can do what they were trained to do and perform a basic spay or neuter considerably well, they have very different mentalities on preventative and basic health care than I do (and yes, I have talked with them, as I'm searching for a vet to potentially be willing to work with me on a spay/neuter voucher system in our county), and so... unless it's something I know I am not knowledgable to deal with (not talking about looking stuff up on google, if I have to google it, and can't trust my own eyes/my own simple canine first aid reference book, I do go to the vet), I just deal with it myself.

And really... the worst I've had to deal with so far is my older dog's arthritis, which improved on the raw diet, but is now starting to return, and while she is still comfortable and showing no signs of pain, I will probably be adding some more cartilage in her diet or another glucosamine source.

With training and exercise, I have high expectations from my animals. First and foremost is bite inhibition and general manners. My older dog is not a candidate for canine good citizen due to her reactiveness around other dogs and exciting situations... in neither situation does she get even the least bit aggressive, just will lose focus, get excitable, and needs to be taken away to a quiet area to calm down. Otherwise, she has great bite inhibition, manners, and a small list of commands (though she knows a ton more words, very few commands... I was 12 when I got her, we lost a LOT of time due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge).

With this pup, I plan on doing some sort of work with her. She will be trained all of the basics and receive her Canine Good Citizen. From everything I have seen of her so far, she's an EXCELLENT candidate. In addition, perhaps some therapy work, agility, and of course, be my trail buddy. All of which she has so far shown great promise for. Very friendly and outgoing, and just takes everything in stride. How do I know even though she's only 7 weeks old? Well... the girl (my friend) who is fostering her until I take her home had taken her to a horse show with her this past weekend. I went to the same horse show. She was taken along with another pup that was supposed to be receiving a home at said show... and needed some company. Anyways, Arya (the pup) was EXCELLENT. While the other puppy needed alone time and got stressed out, Arya took it all in with FLYING colors. As I said, wasn't what I would have done, but I'm not necessarily in control of her for another week. But she was absolutely EXCELLENT. Loved attention, would wag her tail and perk up anytime anyone came near, was already starting to recognize her name and would come when called, very gentle with everyone, especially the kids who came up to pet her (gently), and just loved every minute of it.

So... she's going to be active. She'll be going on 20-30 minute daily walks in the morning and in the evening as well when I don't have class. In addition to that, she will have the backyard, room to roam when I'm at the barn (part of my training is horse appropriate behavior), and when she's old enough and has a solid recall, will go on several hour long trail rides with me.

I have a lot of plans for her... all of which are subject to change depending on how she develops.




But yeah. I wasn't considering juvenile spay for her... but it was something I hadn't ever seen at the vet's office I worked at, and didn't realize it was a thing until I started trying to figure out the voucher program and getting contacts on facebook with various rescue groups. And was just wondering what other people thought. I saw a lot of things that said it was actually better for the pup to do it that young, and others that said it was extremely bad. So... hence my curiosity. :p

my boy diesel 02-19-2014 12:36 AM

4-6 mos is good
thing is this board seems to go
overboard with anti speuter and leaves
me scratching my head
most owners i've found prefer their dogs
altered
this boards an exception it seems
do what's right for you and your girl
and don't listen to naysayers
dogs get sick if altered early
dogs get sick if altered late
dogs get sick if left intact
truth :)

llombardo 02-19-2014 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my boy diesel (Post 5047642)
4-6 mos is good
thing is this board seems to go
overboard with anti speuter and leaves
me scratching my head
most owners i've found prefer their dogs
altered
this boards an exception it seems
do what's right for you and your girl
and don't listen to naysayers
dogs get sick if altered early
dogs get sick if altered late
dogs get sick if left intact
truth :)

Agreed

LoveEcho 02-19-2014 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my boy diesel (Post 5047642)
4-6 mos is good
thing is this board seems to go
overboard with anti speuter and leaves
me scratching my head
most owners i've found prefer their dogs
altered
this boards an exception it seems
do what's right for you and your girl
and don't listen to naysayers
dogs get sick if altered early
dogs get sick if altered late
dogs get sick if left intact
truth :)

I'm so confused by the way you write (it's incredibly hard to read) but I get the general gist of what you're saying, especially about dogs getting sick no matter what. Bear in mind many people on this board are working/sporting people, which is why they tend to not alter their dogs. It all comes down to what the best fit for the owner, the dog, and the lifestyle is.

I don't think people here are anti-speuter so much as pro-informed... They just want people to do a little research and make an informed decision about what's best for them, which is exactly what the OP is doing.


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