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Spay?

2K views 24 replies 11 participants last post by  JeanKBBMMMAAN 
#1 ·
What are y'all's opinions on them?

I am probably going to wait until 6 months for my pup, so I can get her rabies and a microchip at the same type...

But I know some people who will do it for their mixes or rescue pups to assure that their new owners will not even have a chance at breeding them.

My pup is a GSD mix. And I do not want her bred at all, and 6-8 months is ideal for me. So that's what I'm doing.

So... What are y'all's thoughts on juvenile spays and nueters, as in as young as 8 weeks old.


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#3 ·
I'm okay with anything over. 4 months , preferably over 6 months. I do think. 8 weeks is to young and it's sad that shelters and rescues have to go to that extreme because some people don't care how many dogs die a year and they feel that is the only way to control the population:(
 
#4 ·
I am not a fan of early spay/neuter...especially at 8 weeks!
I would also not give the rabies vax at the same time as a surgical procedure...the dog should not be stressed when the vax is given. Both of my females were spayed at 6 months. They are both now getting older and have a bit of incontenence. Not sure if it is due to spaying early. I feed them raw and they aren't overweight.
IF I could do it over, I'd let them go thru a heat cycle and possibly do a tubal ligation instead of a full spay. I'd also do a vasectomy vs a neuter for male. I hope some vets start getting on board with the recent findings and the schools start teaching the procedures.
 
#6 ·
Juvenile spay is 4 months and under I believe.

Before first heat for your mix puppy is fine.

Feed well, exercise, keep her out of the sun for long periods of time without shade/protection from UV, away from lawn chemicals, PVC/vinyl is a good guess to avoid too, feed from quality metal bowls, tick and HW test yearly, train your dog well and happily, always safely contain her in the yard, on walks, in a vehicle, and in the house. - which also means safely containing your stuff, too :), make your vet your partner in your pet's health, do blood work before the spay, and when she's old enough to be a senior, yearly, do lump checks regularly, clean her teeth, spend time with her, and most importantly make sure she has good genetics (which we can't do or know with our mixes but we can always hope!).

I have a pre and post spay checklist when it hits that time if I don't see your thread, PM me.
 
#7 ·
Thanks guys. :) I understand the risks of spaying before the first heat and doing a full spay vs a tubal ligation. My 9 year old dog was spayed at the age of 7 months. we learned later that the vet we went to was NOT known for being good (we had just moved there, and this was in Serbia, so nothing like Angie's list or a way to verify their quality, and those people we did know who had animals didn't use vets, and I was 12 and knew little and my parents knew even less), and he stitched her up improperly, and she bled on and off for about four months out of the sutured area... and he just told us it was normal. In addition to that, the spay was the start of her occasional incontinence. But that experience didn't turn me off to spaying, just that vet. ;)

So, I know things can go wrong. Tubal ligation isn't an option in my location, nor is waiting until after her first cycle, unless I lock her inside the whole time. I live in a pretty rural area and there are a LOT of unfixed males either loose or stray, and they could very easily get into my backyard, or go after me and her while walking and on a leash. Making modifications to my backyard fence isn't allowed with my landlord (I can add a smaller mesh to the inside, but can't build higher or anything along those lines), and I don't have several hundred dollars to spend on an appropriately kennel to house her when she goes outside during that time, especially since it's for one heat cycle and I wouldn't use it any other time.

I feed a balanced raw diet (usually prey model) to all my carnivorous pets. I use only stainless steel bowls. I also only use natural/simple ingredient (as in baking soda and hydrogen peroxide) cleaners for my own health. The backyard is extremely sandy so no lawn to speak off, so no lawn cleaners. The most dangerous chemical-related things in my house are my art supplies, which I keep in one room. On a desk if in use, in drawers on top of said desk or other type shelves if not in use. I can also put up a baby gate if need to be to keep her out of that room, as there's no door to it.

I don't personally plan on working hand in hand with any of the vets in my location on a regular basis. Apart from the first shots, bill of health if I need it, rabies (for legal reasons), bloodwork if it's ever needed, emergencies, and spay/neuter... I do it all myself. I can assure product quality, I have knowledge and experience of how to deal with 95% of things that may arise. So while I would not necessarily recommend my method of veterinary involvement for most dog owners (especially those who are not knowledgeable and experienced or have issues with blood if a small cut happens), it has worked for me. Minimalism. I do my own tests for heartworm. I was trained by the veterinarian I worked for for 2 years how to draw blood safely, and perform intravenous, intramuscular, and subdermal injections. I've never had to perform any kind of teeth cleaning with any of my animals, and while it still could be an option, due to her diet of raw meaty bones and so on, the likelihood is very small.

I just don't trust the vets in this location, pretty much within a 2 hour radius. We're very rural, and while they can do what they were trained to do and perform a basic spay or neuter considerably well, they have very different mentalities on preventative and basic health care than I do (and yes, I have talked with them, as I'm searching for a vet to potentially be willing to work with me on a spay/neuter voucher system in our county), and so... unless it's something I know I am not knowledgable to deal with (not talking about looking stuff up on google, if I have to google it, and can't trust my own eyes/my own simple canine first aid reference book, I do go to the vet), I just deal with it myself.

And really... the worst I've had to deal with so far is my older dog's arthritis, which improved on the raw diet, but is now starting to return, and while she is still comfortable and showing no signs of pain, I will probably be adding some more cartilage in her diet or another glucosamine source.

With training and exercise, I have high expectations from my animals. First and foremost is bite inhibition and general manners. My older dog is not a candidate for canine good citizen due to her reactiveness around other dogs and exciting situations... in neither situation does she get even the least bit aggressive, just will lose focus, get excitable, and needs to be taken away to a quiet area to calm down. Otherwise, she has great bite inhibition, manners, and a small list of commands (though she knows a ton more words, very few commands... I was 12 when I got her, we lost a LOT of time due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge).

With this pup, I plan on doing some sort of work with her. She will be trained all of the basics and receive her Canine Good Citizen. From everything I have seen of her so far, she's an EXCELLENT candidate. In addition, perhaps some therapy work, agility, and of course, be my trail buddy. All of which she has so far shown great promise for. Very friendly and outgoing, and just takes everything in stride. How do I know even though she's only 7 weeks old? Well... the girl (my friend) who is fostering her until I take her home had taken her to a horse show with her this past weekend. I went to the same horse show. She was taken along with another pup that was supposed to be receiving a home at said show... and needed some company. Anyways, Arya (the pup) was EXCELLENT. While the other puppy needed alone time and got stressed out, Arya took it all in with FLYING colors. As I said, wasn't what I would have done, but I'm not necessarily in control of her for another week. But she was absolutely EXCELLENT. Loved attention, would wag her tail and perk up anytime anyone came near, was already starting to recognize her name and would come when called, very gentle with everyone, especially the kids who came up to pet her (gently), and just loved every minute of it.

So... she's going to be active. She'll be going on 20-30 minute daily walks in the morning and in the evening as well when I don't have class. In addition to that, she will have the backyard, room to roam when I'm at the barn (part of my training is horse appropriate behavior), and when she's old enough and has a solid recall, will go on several hour long trail rides with me.

I have a lot of plans for her... all of which are subject to change depending on how she develops.




But yeah. I wasn't considering juvenile spay for her... but it was something I hadn't ever seen at the vet's office I worked at, and didn't realize it was a thing until I started trying to figure out the voucher program and getting contacts on facebook with various rescue groups. And was just wondering what other people thought. I saw a lot of things that said it was actually better for the pup to do it that young, and others that said it was extremely bad. So... hence my curiosity. :p
 
#8 ·
4-6 mos is good
thing is this board seems to go
overboard with anti speuter and leaves
me scratching my head
most owners i've found prefer their dogs
altered
this boards an exception it seems
do what's right for you and your girl
and don't listen to naysayers
dogs get sick if altered early
dogs get sick if altered late
dogs get sick if left intact
truth :)
 
#11 ·
working and sporting people
aren't general pet owners
or general population
i don't work my dog or sport
so he's just a pet and i think
this board forgets that many owners
are just like me and don't
want to deal with intact pets
that doesn't make us stupid
or lazy (common belief here apparently)
but in the short time our dogs have
here on earth i want to enjoy that time
and not have my dog adding
to the stress of daily living
i apologize for my style
of writing
my keyboard
is missing some keys :(
 
#12 ·
I totally understand working or pet homes wanting to Spay their females and if I had a female I would also spay...not a puppy spay.

I don't really understand why there is stress when owning an unaltered male. For years I have found absolutely no stress as a result of my males being intact aside from having a bitch in heat in same household.

Please explain where the added stress comes from.
 
#13 ·
in my case it was
increased aggression
which faded away with neuter
others have told me their boys
act like jerks
running their face through a females
urine stream and generally being
overly sexed
neutering will help in that area as well

in the video by the woman Dr Becker
she states at the end if you have a male
showing aggression its better to neuter
than leave intact
perhaps some folks missed that part
 
#15 ·
I have had multiple dogs....multuple breeds....the only aggressive dog of the bunch was neutered.

There are alot of factors to consider when dealing with an aggressive dog. I don't believe neuter to be a quick fix....as many on this board have posted throughout the years.

Not everything vets tell you are factual and true IMHO.
 
#16 ·
Unfortunately, "pet" owners want an easier fix than training. That's where neutering comes in, though it isn't usually very healthy, especially that young. Studies show increased chances of cancers among other behavioral issues in dogs that are neutered before maturity (2 yrs) - it's science, not anecdotal information.

Many of us prefer to keep our dogs intact because it is healthier, and since we do put so much training into them, they do not have any behavioral issues associated with testicles or ovaries.

For the general pet population, as much as it hurts the dogs, I prefer early s/n because they simply can't be trusted to take care of intact dogs properly.
 
#17 ·
So in my case... would y'all recommend I wait? Regardless of it being a mix that I do NOT want to be bred at all? In a rural area with a ton of loose unfixed males (I'm not kidding when I say they live outside my front door in a way, it's a trailer park and other homeowners just don't care), no reliable fencing that I cannot change because I am renting my home. And even if all I do during her heat is walk her on a leash outside, the males in this area are NOT well trained in the slightest, and it would be a big fight.

My problem isn't that I can't deal with an intact female or intact male behavior-wise. That's not a problem in the slightest. Training-wise, I am perfectly content and comfortable with either male or female, intact or fixed.

My problem is that she is a mixed breed, and I do not want the risk of potentially having another generation of mixed breeds that have trouble finding homes (the litter she came from only JUST found homes for all 8 puppies despite some serious advertising for them by their foster mom). I know there are ways of aborting pregnancies if something does happen, but all of those have risks associated with them as well.

So... I do want to do what is best for her though. I am NOT doing a juvenile spay... but a spay before her first heat... but nothing is scheduled as of yet.. so that could always change.
 
#19 ·
If you feel you cannot prevent a pregnancy due to your living arrangements, to spay is the only way to go.....simple.

It will be a juvenile spay even if you do right after first heat in most cases.....in the end, yours and her health and safety has to be number one so in your shoes I would most likely spay her before first heat. I am not sure if there are benefits of waiting for one heat vs. no heat. Perhaps some others will clarify if there are.
 
#22 ·
If you feel you cannot prevent a pregnancy due to your living arrangements, to spay is the only way to go.....simple.


this
there's health risks to leaving intact
as well as spaying early
before first heat
and when you add
the benefit of no unwanted litters
your little girl will do fine
 
#24 ·
Lauri & the Gang... thank you so much for those links. Read through them, and feel very enlightened. :p I love medical studies and such that totally slam down commonly believed myths.

However... I do believe I fit under one of the vet's recommendations for an early spay... not because of my own dogs, but because of my neighbors' dogs... and even if I have her on a leash 24/7 anytime I go outside while she's in her heat (which is what I would do), because of other people's irresponsibility, the risk of some animal getting hurt is high.

So... I'll see how it goes with her... but I'll probably spay around 6-7 months of age...
 
#25 ·
I am changing the title of this thread - a 6-7 month old is not a juvenile spay so that addresses that.

Some more information: Early Spay & Neuter
does have information on juvenile (and other) spays. You have to click on some links for a few of them.

In your environment - without a doubt, you will have peace of mind. I also live in a no leash law place - my dogs are in a fenced yard if they are out but man, other dogs just roam.

Knock wood, my GSD will be 12 this April. Had I gotten her as a puppy, we would have missed out on 2 years of her being in heat in her lifetime (she had 1 in rescue as they were unable to leave her/take her to a vet due to behavior issues). I don't feel like either of us missed out on much. I just hope she has good genetics (she's got a lot of the GSD issues, but thankfully always to a minor degree - fistulas, plasmoma, EPI, allergies to chicken and eggs, sensitive stomach overall, HD noted @ time of spay, zinc [prior to spay] shortage, spondylosis, vulvar fold [extra flap of skin] so I'm happy about that)! And her previous behavior was not related to spay/not spay and is about as perfect as could be.
 
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