Not sure I agree with the vet..... - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2014, 08:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Anastasia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Burlington County, NJ
Posts: 318
Default Not sure I agree with the vet.....

When Jack was a puppy he rarely had a firm stool, he was eating Innova. He would have a soft but formed stool and then he would go to pudding consistancy for a few days. BTW he never ate with gusto while on Innova it took me forever to realize he genuinely didn't like it. Somewhere around 10 -11 months we switched to Wellness, Imagine my surprise when he wolfed it down at feeding time. A couple of months later the light bulb went off and I switched to Wellness Core, Chicken. Almost instantly he started having normal stool. A couple of months after that I noticed he seemed to be itchy and I suspected the chicken so I switched to whitefish and the itching ceased. Then last June he had an ear infection so I took him in and they swabbed the ear and tested and said it was yeast. We did two weeks of Mometamax and within a couple of weeks the infection was back, so another round of Mometamax. with the same result, now we are on our second round of Baytril. He went in for his Gastropexy yesterday and while he was under my vet was able to get a good look into his ear and she said it was really bad and she seemed really concerned about the situation.

My vet wants to put him on a prescription diet or for me to cook for him using recipes from BalanceIT.com using Balance IT Canine supplements for 3 months to see if we have improvement. I'm not sure we are there yet? It seems to me that maybe we should stop all treats and keep the wellness core for 3 months to see if there is improvement. I'm feeling suspicious of the bully sticks that I started buying from Costco at the same time frame as the ear infection starting. He also loves the soft cat food and while it is also wellness core it is chicken or turkey, he doesn't get into a lot of this but maybe what he is getting is enough. There is also the cheese sticks that he loves and whatever the family is feeding him at any given time.

I would love to hear your opinions on this situation, should I follow the vets advice? Is there something else I should be doing? I don't want to go against her directions but my gut is telling me that this seems drastic, am I wrong?

Thank you for your help.
Anastasia is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-07-2014, 08:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
DaniFani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,199
Default

Have you heard of Nutrisource? It's a really good kibble. I've seen dogs with some pretty touchy stomachs and/or bad allergies do really really well on it. No fillers, all in-country made, etc....I'd recommend it highly. I am NOT trying to bash vets, but a lot of vets know very little about nutrition/diet. Allergies and diets can be exhausting and difficult to deal with. The only reason I recommend Nutrisource is because I've seen it work on some pretty messed up dogs (digestive wise). I would go on a high quality kibble, and cut out allll snacks (bully sticks, bones, etc) until you get solid stool. Then introduce things one thing at a time. Although, your vet (who knows history and your dog) might be better than internet folks. Good luck!
__________________
"An excess of size is an unserviceable feature for breeding, his powers of endurance, his speed and the smartness of his movements suffer in all circumstances. Giants are never nimble."-Creator of GSD
DaniFani is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2014, 08:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
llombardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,762
Default

I don't have any ideas about the ear infections, but I have come to the conclusion that the loose stools in my house are due to over feeding. I've gotten much stricter with measuring food and we have less poop and its firm poop. I've eased up on treats. They get one treat a day and its got pumpkin and coconut in it. I can't tell you how many times I've gone through the loose stool thing, switching foods and giving them medication. Now I'm thinking it was all my fault
__________________
Misty- Samoyed Mix
Tannor- Golden Retriever CGC
Robyn- German Shepherd CGC
Midnite-German Shepherd CGC
Brennan- Golden Retriever



"A dog is the only thing on this earth that loves you
more than he loves himself."
llombardo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2014, 08:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 483
Default

The history you give sounds like your guy has food sensitivities. I would suggest a couple of things:

1. Switch to a Limited ingredient food (LID) that only has one protein and one carb. Choose a novel protein your dog has never had (buffalo, lamb, bison). I like Nature's Variety Instinct but there are others.

2. If you can afford the expense I would do Dr. Dodds Nutriscan food sensitivity test.
NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs. It's about $300 but it gets good reviews. I myself am saving to afford it for my pup.

3. You can do an elimination diet on our own. Seems like you already started down that path. It does a bit of time to see results.

4. Make a 50/50 mix of water and Organic Apple cider vinegar. Wet a cotton make pad with the solution and gently wipe the inside the ear as deep as you can go without loosing the pad or hurting the ear. Do this 3 times a day. Be sure to dry the inside the ear after cleaning.

As for not agreeing with your vet. You wouldn't be the first, won't be the last. You could get a second opinion from another vet. Is there an holistic vet in your area?

Ultimately, it's up to you to use your best judgment.
Springbrz is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2014, 09:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Anastasia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Burlington County, NJ
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbrz View Post
The history you give sounds like your guy has food sensitivities. I would suggest a couple of things:

1. Switch to a Limited ingredient food (LID) that only has one protein and one carb. Choose a novel protein your dog has never had (buffalo, lamb, bison). I like Nature's Variety Instinct but there are others.

2. If you can afford the expense I would do Dr. Dodds Nutriscan food sensitivity test.
NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs. It's about $300 but it gets good reviews. I myself am saving to afford it for my pup.

3. You can do an elimination diet on our own. Seems like you already started down that path. It does a bit of time to see results.

4. Make a 50/50 mix of water and Organic Apple cider vinegar. Wet a cotton make pad with the solution and gently wipe the inside the ear as deep as you can go without loosing the pad or hurting the ear. Do this 3 times a day. Be sure to dry the inside the ear after cleaning.

As for not agreeing with your vet. You wouldn't be the first, won't be the last. You could get a second opinion from another vet. Is there an holistic vet in your area?

Ultimately, it's up to you to use your best judgment.
Thank you for the link. I really like the idea of the test, it makes sense to me to test then to actually eliminate one by one.
Anastasia is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-08-2014, 06:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Anastasia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Burlington County, NJ
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniFani View Post
Have you heard of Nutrisource? It's a really good kibble. I've seen dogs with some pretty touchy stomachs and/or bad allergies do really really well on it. No fillers, all in-country made, etc....I'd recommend it highly. I am NOT trying to bash vets, but a lot of vets know very little about nutrition/diet. Allergies and diets can be exhausting and difficult to deal with. The only reason I recommend Nutrisource is because I've seen it work on some pretty messed up dogs (digestive wise). I would go on a high quality kibble, and cut out allll snacks (bully sticks, bones, etc) until you get solid stool. Then introduce things one thing at a time. Although, your vet (who knows history and your dog) might be better than internet folks. Good luck!
Thank you I will check it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
I don't have any ideas about the ear infections, but I have come to the conclusion that the loose stools in my house are due to over feeding. I've gotten much stricter with measuring food and we have less poop and its firm poop. I've eased up on treats. They get one treat a day and its got pumpkin and coconut in it. I can't tell you how many times I've gone through the loose stool thing, switching foods and giving them medication. Now I'm thinking it was all my fault
I have to say this is the one thing I'm sure it isn't! The stool issue has been resolved but Jack is one of those rare dogs that regulates his own weight, he simply won't over eat. Crazy but true!
Anastasia is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-08-2014, 07:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Momto2GSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,263
Default

Why not try a commercially prepared raw diet?
A raw diet is usually very successful at controlling yeast.

Northwest Naturals:
  • USDA Inspected Raw Materials
  • 100% Grain Free
  • Northwest Naturals™ is manufactured in a quality controlled USDA human food inspected facility.
  • Northwest Naturals™ is a food that is developed and manufactured by a team that has 15 years of experience in raw natural pet-food manufacturing, and backed by a 53 year old meat processing company.
  • Northwest Naturals Inc.™ uses fresh ground bone for an organic calcium source.
  • Northwest Naturals™ uses a unique flash freezing to preserve the integrity of the nutrients.
  • Northwest Naturals™ is convenient and easy to use.
  • Northwest Naturals™ offers unsurpassed quality and 100% customer satisfaction guarantees.
All Northwest Naturals Diets are complete, balanced and formulated to meet the nutritional levels established and recommended by the AAFCO Food Nutrient Profiles For All Life Stages.
http://cms.nw-naturals.net/raw/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&I temid=62

OR

Bravo Balance Raw Diet, the very best, nutritionally complete fresh frozen raw food diet. Bravo! Balance meets AAFCO standards for 100% complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of a dog or cat. Available in Chicken, Turkey and Beef formulas in two product formats - 4 oz full size burgers and bulk in tubes (chubs) in two and five pound sizes. Bravo! Balance

OR

Prepare you own by using fresh, raw, ground meat (beef, turkey, chicken) from you local market (you can get reasonably priced meat at Sams' or Costco) and adding the following to insure the diet is balanced.

Steve Browns Homemade Dinner Mix to your own ground meat (beef, turkey, chicken). See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes | Product Catalog
Info: Healthy Dog Food Dinner Mixes

"When mixed according to directions, See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for adults and for all life stages."

See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes blended with fresh lean meats (lightly cooked or raw) make the most nutritious and delicious meals you can serve your dogs.
It's easy. Just add 2 tablespoons (4 for puppies) of our special mix to one pound of fresh beef, chicken, turkey, or lamb, and add a can of sardines or fish oils weekly.
When mixed according to directions, See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for adults and for all life stages.
A typical 35-pound dog will need one bag per month.

Ingredients: dried spinach, ground flax seed, dicalcium phosphate, oyster shell powder, dried spirulina algae, psyllium husk powder, organic dried kelp, sea salt, inulin, chelated minerals (iron, zinc, manganese and copper amino acid chelates), vitamin E, choline chloride, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3, vitamin B12.

Also, if you would be interested in seeking out a Registered Holistic Vet, I can post a list for NJ. Holistic vet's treat the dog to "balance" the whole system, not just work on one issue the dog has.

Hope you find something that works for your Fur Baby!

Moms
Momto2GSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-08-2014, 09:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 180
Send a message via Yahoo to sehrgutcsg
Default

Beet pulp in dry-food causes loose stools. I would steer clear of any treats imported from China. The "ear" the doctor must treat and cure...
sehrgutcsg is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-08-2014, 02:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
_Zero_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alaska
Posts: 72
Default

I'd second the suggestion for trying pre-prepared raw, or suggest you try a very low-carb food, like Wysong Epigen, Evo, or a canned food. Yeast feeds on carbohydrates. These grain-free foods (e.g. Wellness Core, Natural Balance LID) are all very high in carbs-- they replace the grains with very starchy foods like peas and potatoes. Since the dog's system is loaded with carbs, that provides fodder for yeast to grow. Hence the itching and the ear infection.

I don't necessarily think the feeding trial with a novel protein source is a bad idea, but I'd hesitate to go down that road unless you're absolutely sure it's the *protein* Jack is responding to and not the other ingredients in the food.

Evo has some balanced 95% meat canned foods. Evanger's also has some balanced canned foods that are 90% meat or greater (e.g. several varieties of their Super Premium line). Evo kibble is low carb and Wyson Epigen is starch-free, and advertises itself as the lowest carb dog kibble on the market. Orijen's varieties are also relatively low carb. Most of the pre-prepared raw varieties will also be much lower in carbs than kibbles, and should you choose to be adventurous, going prey-model raw will eliminate all of the carbs from his diet entirely.

Here is a VERY simple raw dog food recipe that is supposed to starve out yeast:

Yeast Starvation Dog Food Recipe - Homemade Dog Food

It should be relatively inexpensive to try.

It might be worth looking into a high carb load as the source of your pup's yeast issues before going down the "food allergy" route. Very few dogs have true allergies to food, although they can develop intolerance to protein sources. I'd say if his stools are firm that would suggest more that he's having trouble with carbs feeding yeast as opposed to the protein in the food. If the protein source were giving him issues, you might suspect he'd have loose stools as well, because it would irritate the lining of his digestive tract.

Good luck, and keep up updated!

Last edited by _Zero_; 02-08-2014 at 02:29 PM.
_Zero_ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2014, 09:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Anastasia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Burlington County, NJ
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto2GSDs View Post
Why not try a commercially prepared raw diet?
A raw diet is usually very successful at controlling yeast.

Northwest Naturals:
  • USDA Inspected Raw Materials
  • 100% Grain Free
  • Northwest Naturals™ is manufactured in a quality controlled USDA human food inspected facility.
  • Northwest Naturals™ is a food that is developed and manufactured by a team that has 15 years of experience in raw natural pet-food manufacturing, and backed by a 53 year old meat processing company.
  • Northwest Naturals Inc.™ uses fresh ground bone for an organic calcium source.
  • Northwest Naturals™ uses a unique flash freezing to preserve the integrity of the nutrients.
  • Northwest Naturals™ is convenient and easy to use.
  • Northwest Naturals™ offers unsurpassed quality and 100% customer satisfaction guarantees.
All Northwest Naturals Diets are complete, balanced and formulated to meet the nutritional levels established and recommended by the AAFCO Food Nutrient Profiles For All Life Stages.
http://cms.nw-naturals.net/raw/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&I temid=62

OR

Bravo Balance Raw Diet, the very best, nutritionally complete fresh frozen raw food diet. Bravo! Balance meets AAFCO standards for 100% complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of a dog or cat. Available in Chicken, Turkey and Beef formulas in two product formats - 4 oz full size burgers and bulk in tubes (chubs) in two and five pound sizes. Bravo! Balance

OR

Prepare you own by using fresh, raw, ground meat (beef, turkey, chicken) from you local market (you can get reasonably priced meat at Sams' or Costco) and adding the following to insure the diet is balanced.

Steve Browns Homemade Dinner Mix to your own ground meat (beef, turkey, chicken). See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes | Product Catalog
Info: Healthy Dog Food Dinner Mixes

"When mixed according to directions, See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for adults and for all life stages."

See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes blended with fresh lean meats (lightly cooked or raw) make the most nutritious and delicious meals you can serve your dogs.
It's easy. Just add 2 tablespoons (4 for puppies) of our special mix to one pound of fresh beef, chicken, turkey, or lamb, and add a can of sardines or fish oils weekly.
When mixed according to directions, See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for adults and for all life stages.
A typical 35-pound dog will need one bag per month.

Ingredients: dried spinach, ground flax seed, dicalcium phosphate, oyster shell powder, dried spirulina algae, psyllium husk powder, organic dried kelp, sea salt, inulin, chelated minerals (iron, zinc, manganese and copper amino acid chelates), vitamin E, choline chloride, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3, vitamin B12.

Also, if you would be interested in seeking out a Registered Holistic Vet, I can post a list for NJ. Holistic vet's treat the dog to "balance" the whole system, not just work on one issue the dog has.

Hope you find something that works for your Fur Baby!

Moms
Thank you! I checked into Northwest and I can't find it in my area, I found Bravo and it's going to cost me $160.00 a week to feed him the required 14 pounds! I would be interested in the holistic vets in NJ when you have time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zero_ View Post
I'd second the suggestion for trying pre-prepared raw, or suggest you try a very low-carb food, like Wysong Epigen, Evo, or a canned food. Yeast feeds on carbohydrates. These grain-free foods (e.g. Wellness Core, Natural Balance LID) are all very high in carbs-- they replace the grains with very starchy foods like peas and potatoes. Since the dog's system is loaded with carbs, that provides fodder for yeast to grow. Hence the itching and the ear infection.

I don't necessarily think the feeding trial with a novel protein source is a bad idea, but I'd hesitate to go down that road unless you're absolutely sure it's the *protein* Jack is responding to and not the other ingredients in the food.

Evo has some balanced 95% meat canned foods. Evanger's also has some balanced canned foods that are 90% meat or greater (e.g. several varieties of their Super Premium line). Evo kibble is low carb and Wyson Epigen is starch-free, and advertises itself as the lowest carb dog kibble on the market. Orijen's varieties are also relatively low carb. Most of the pre-prepared raw varieties will also be much lower in carbs than kibbles, and should you choose to be adventurous, going prey-model raw will eliminate all of the carbs from his diet entirely.

Here is a VERY simple raw dog food recipe that is supposed to starve out yeast:

Yeast Starvation Dog Food Recipe - Homemade Dog Food

It should be relatively inexpensive to try.

It might be worth looking into a high carb load as the source of your pup's yeast issues before going down the "food allergy" route. Very few dogs have true allergies to food, although they can develop intolerance to protein sources. I'd say if his stools are firm that would suggest more that he's having trouble with carbs feeding yeast as opposed to the protein in the food. If the protein source were giving him issues, you might suspect he'd have loose stools as well, because it would irritate the lining of his digestive tract.

Good luck, and keep up updated!
Planning to start the Yeast Starvation Diet as soon as the vitamins arrive, they recommend 3-6 months which should give me enough time to research what to do next! Thank you for posting, what your saying about carbs feeding the yeast makes sense to me!
Anastasia is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:09 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com