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Severe Itchiness that BAFFLES vet

26K views 154 replies 33 participants last post by  GatorBytes 
#1 ·
My GSD Panzer has been battling some form of allergies or skin disorder since a young pup. I've spent thousands of dollars on tests and medication and nothing seems to be working.

His skin is almost always red and irritated, and often takes on a black scaly texture in certain areas. He rubs his face constantly on the furniture to the point where the poor thing bleeds! He's itched off his belly and underarm and neck hair.

This usually goes away for a little while with a string of prednisone and antibiotics but fairly shortly after he's taken off it he gets another flare up.

I submitted his blood for allergy testing from Spectra Labs and they determined he's allergic to almost everything. Potatoes, Peas, Pork, fleas, house flies, nuts, certain trees, grass, and much more. His ears are constantly bothering him and get some sort of yeasty build up. I try to control it with the use of KetFlush which was provided by the vet.

To attempt to alleviate his symptoms he has been taking regular homeopathic allergen injection shots but they don't seem very effective, even now as he approaches the highest dosage concentration.

We also changed his dog food to one that doesn't contain any known allergens, and give him ONLY fresh spring water to drink. I'm at a complete loss here. He's been previously treated for allergy flare ups with prednisone and also the yeast with special shampoos and pills.

They checked him for mites with a sample under a microscope, and was told they didn't find anything. They also examined him for fleas and said he was clear.

I just want him to be healthy and happy. He's almost 2 years old and I've had to stop his training due to his health issues and I also have to walk him on pavement and avoid dog parks for fear the allergens will cause a flare up.

Please help. I've run out of idea's to try, and I'm still no closer to understanding what's wrong with my dog. Any insights or ideas?
 
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#60 ·
I've heard allergies can take up to 3 months to disappear after exposure has stopped.

I would stick with a raw diet for the 3 months.

Re: coconut oil, don't feed the refined stuff, feed cold pressed, organic. The refined has lost much of its benefits.

For environmental allergies, for pollenating plants, you can feed LOCAL bee pollen with food as a natural form of exposure therapy. It can take a long, long time to work though.

Also, check your floor cleaners etc. I got a steam mop for cleaning. Sanitizes with steam, not chemicals. Could you have a mold/mildew problem?

Good luck, this sounds awful for you both! :(
 
#61 ·
I may have the answer your looking for based on experince

I feel for the dog and the OP here and I hope you look at the fact this is my first post in a contribution manner..? I dealt with my wife's dog having open sore's when we first met in 1992 and found the cause pretty quickly when "Spankie" would have puss, bleed, lick and itch all day and night. I am reluctant to post a vet's name here as I do not know the rules regarding this. But he is an allergy specialist and he has/had a list of celebrity clientele everybody know's as; "Captain Kirk." Inside of 5 weeks "Spankie" started growing eyelashes and the sores healed over. It may have to do with a hormone called Cortisol levels..? I am not the doctor. I am simply saying if you wish to PM me.. I will direct you to the Vet of my choice in this dilemma.. Although, I read your on the East Coast and he is on the West Coast. He can be contacted on his website or at the Clinic. He's the best that ever walked and talked on allergy..

Interested in knowing the changes good and bad that have taken place with the GSDs since the late 1980s.


Hope this works out so the fun can continue...
 
#62 ·
Panzer looks exactly like my Dante.

But Dante lost all of his 'mane' around his shoulders as well and ALL of his skin from his testies to his pits had turned black, thick and rough.

Stop the allergy shots. Do not use any more "medicine" on him. Stop the baths. Let his skin heal.

Do not even give him his yearly shots right now.

Get a pet balm, like Bag Balm, or pet vet balm. It is thick, will give his skin a barrier between everything and will stay on through the licking. It wont hurt them either if they digest it.

Yes I went through a TON of Bag Balm. I put it on so thick it looked like he was ready for cooking. On his feet I globed it on, covered it with children's socks and then topped it off with Vet Wrap.

For his ears, get an ear rinse that promotes drying out the ear. Use it as recommended and ABSOLUTELY ANY TIME he is outside in wet conditions(rain, snow, sprinklers), after bathing, or water sports. Not an antibiotic rinse. Just a normal Over the counter rinse.

You want to get all foreign invaders OUT of his body and let it 're-boot' it's healing.

Now the ugly part. The diet. I do not like touching most of the meat they have to eat, but, they sure do love eating it.

It is gross, both inside and out. Panzer will likely have disgusting bowel movements and they will scare the bee geesus out of you. Right now IMO only worry if you see blood, because everything coming out needs to come out. It is all the bad stuff his body has been dealing with.

Now you know your dog best, and if he seems to be getting worse of course you should consult a vet. But for starting this new diet, give it time and have some faith.

Dante was 60 lbs at the worst of his symptoms. He had lost 15 lbs and he was supposed to be gaining at the time. And he was so absolutely not feeling well that he seemed like a beaten dog. Just wanted no one to touch him and no attention because he looked as well as felt terrible.
Dante still watches me if I have cloths and spray bottles.

It took us three months to see MASS improvements.
Things slowly got better at the start.
First the heat and red skin receded.
Then he slowed at licking himself raw.
Dante lost ALL of his hair(about February), the first wave was his long coat and he looked bald. He was bald on his chest, tummy and shoulders. His short coat was rough.
Then he stopped weeping. His skin just had a crustiness that turned to a flaking.
Then his skin got softer where it was black and started to gray out.
He would still lick his paws, scratch his ears and go over his bald spots.
But we kept up the bag balm.
His ears were still infected and stinky and we had to work super hard on them.
By the end of that summer Dante had regrown all his hair, his skin was light gray soft and supple and he had no red, raw, hot, black or tough skin.
His ears were still infected and we had to clean them so much.

During the worst of his episodes we did not train, or play much. And during the raw diet start up we did not train or work out. My main focus was on keeping his skin clean, supple with the balm and free of sores. Plus Dante did not feel liek doing anything but gnawing or licking himself. So keeping his maw off his sore skin was a task.

Just make sure that YOU are aware of everything going in and at what is coming out of him. Make sure no one else is sneaking him left overs, or treats that are not RAW. Make sure he is staying out of the garbage and/or not sneaking any other pet's or children's foods.

Don't forget to get natural chews and treats. It is easy to over look a small biscuit or raw hide and not think they can do just as much damage as the kibble.

And please, please have some faith in the process. Your vet may or most likely will not support your decision to go RAW. And mine had scared me about trying to go raw. But the one I stuck with has seen the proof and she does not say anything bad about it now. She is utterly amazed and happy that Dante is feeling better.
 
#64 ·
Wow.

I can not believe some of the posts.

Have you NOT been reading that Panzer is seeing a Vet and an Allergy vet?

Isn't an Allergy vet a specialist? Really?

Make the owner feel worse because they ask for HELP?

What is the matter with some of you?

My Dante WAS WORSE than the images posted of Panzer. We saw a vet and a secondary vet every month and they had no idea what to do. We did blood tests, skin tests and we were going to see a specialist at WSU in Wa.

RAW/B.A.R.F. may not be the answer, but, deciding against trying it and giving it a chance (with time) is no worse then treating the symptoms improperly with medicines and treatments that have already been exhausted.

Gibby knows that he/r Panzer feels like poop and appears miserable. They don't need others rubbing it in their face when they are seeking any way to possibly improve their pet's life.
 
#65 ·
What is the matter with some of us????? Shouldn't we be asking that question?

For certain people to diagnose and recommend treatment on here without any medical training is at the very least "irresponsible" :mad:

Nothing wrong with people sharing their stories about what worked for them but to tell people what they need to do and to stay away from conventional medicine at all cost is ridiculous.

gibby: I don't know who did the allergy testing on your boy but if it wasn't done by a dermatologist it could be wrong, therefore treatment isn't working. What do you mean by "holistic allergy injections"?

If you are only wanting to go the holistic route please find a veterinarian to help you with your dog. First you need a correct diagnosis so they can figure out a treatment plan. And as far as feeding raw I would go over to K9 Kitchen to get some help. Many of these diets (raw or cooked) that float around on the internet are horribly unbalanced.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/K9Kitchen/info

And below you can read about the other side of feeding raw that they won't tell you about here. I just like for people to have the pros and cons so they can make an informed decision.

http://www.foodworldnews.com/articles/4822/20131220/drug-resistant-bacteria-found-in-97-percent-of-raw-chicken-sold-in-u-s-supermarket.htm

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/dog_and_cat_foods.html

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/nutrition/resources/raw_meat_diets.pdf

http://www.csuvets.colostate.edu/pain/Articlespdf/Problems%20with%20Raw%20Meat.pdf

http://www.cvm.missouri.edu/News/backus07.htm
 
#70 ·
For certain people to diagnose and recommend treatment on here without any medical training is at the very least "irresponsible" :mad:
Wow. Really. Are you a VET?
Or are you a Vet Tech?
If it is the former; congrats on passing vet school. Are you specialized in Canine medicine?
If so then please PM Myself and Gibby to find out the more specific symptoms and all the TREATMENTS we have tried. And you can even contact my Vet and see what she has to say.
If you are a Vet Tech; then you only know what you have seen in the office and then what worked for that patient.
Basically if is walks like a duck, and quack likes a duck, then it must be a duck.

Heidigsd said:
Nothing wrong with people sharing their stories about what worked for them but to tell people what they need to do and to stay away from conventional medicine at all cost is ridiculous.
Did anyone say, 'STAY AWAY from the VET'? NO.
Did anyone say, 'Stay away from a specialist or derma, or (________)'?

NO.


Heidigsd said:
gibby: I don't know who did the allergy testing on your boy but if it wasn't done by a dermatologist it could be wrong, therefore treatment isn't working. What do you mean by "holistic allergy injections"?

If you are only wanting to go the holistic route please find a veterinarian to help you with your dog. First you need a correct diagnosis so they can figure out a treatment plan. And as far as feeding raw I would go over to K9 Kitchen to get some help. Many of these diets (raw or cooked) that float around on the internet are horribly unbalanced.
I think you MISSED the parts where Panzers mom/dad Gibby said that they WERE seeing a Vet and a Allergy Vet.

And if telling my "story" as you say helps this dog to better health and well being then I will scream it. I will post it over, and over and over and clarify what I did for my Dante and how AWESOME he is now physically.

I have a vet that has SEEN the change and she has NOTHING bad to say about the Diet and lack of medicines and steroids my dog now has to take.

and let me repeat:
Gibby and Panzer,

I have posted to you previously in your other thread.

I understand that you want to do the VERY best for your Panzer and that you have exhausted every treatment option the Vet has given you.

And I know that the Veterinarian and Vet Techs are trained professionals.

But they have no idea what the process for making commercial kibble is. (Does any one truly?)

And I can't say that the commercial kibble is sub standard or processed too much for real dietary needs of canines.

But I can attest to the change in my dog. So can my Vet.

I can tell you what I fed my dog and I can tell you exactly what my dog suffered.

And I can tell you what I tried. And I can tell you what I changed.

And I can tell you how Dante is now.

Even show you a picture, but, not having the past images does not help you.

I can tell you I am not promoting any products, brand name, vet or any supplement.

I just wanted my dog to be healthy and happy.

And Now I want to help any one who has a dog suffering similar symptoms.

GatorBytes, Carmen and Mom helped me so much. I have to give them much gratitude for my Dante, because he has never met them but his health has greatly improved by my knowing them(through this site).
 
#66 ·
I am waiting to get an answer from a local vet that has seen a dramatic rise in a particular, "new" skin problem , that has resisted every treatment . Apparently over 50 per cent , 60 or more clinic time , lately, is dealing with this.

The symptoms are a small spot which is itchy , and spreads and is flame red and oozing , skin like a bubble pack . When it heals the skin is rubbery and textured and the hair never grows back properly - length and texture different .
so far this is the only thing that works " The last shot Fraoch got was 1.5 ml of Depomedrol with the 1Duolocillin LA CANINE. The cost of both is fairly expensive . It does help though do us worth the effort" and a shampoo with " the shampoo is either one of UBA vet or Virbac epi soothe shampoo and cream rinse is Virbac‎ epi soothe cream rinse. "
Vitamin E and D seem to help .
this particular dog is a friends dog , a cobby wire haired fox terrier.
Wondering if it is some environmental or deficiency based problem.
These are experienced dog owners, 2 GSD of mine. Both husband and wife are in the medical field . Waiting for some knowledge from the vet , apparently conferencing with others in the area.
 
#68 ·
" The last shot Fraoch got was 1.5 ml of Depomedrol with the 1Duolocillin LA CANINE. The cost of both is fairly expensive . It does help though do us worth the effort" and a shampoo with " the shampoo is either one of UBA vet or Virbac epi soothe shampoo and cream rinse is Virbac‎ epi soothe cream rinse. "

I can't tell on my phone, so I think I am quoting something you were quoting, my phone messes up things a lot, but.... Just to clarify and hipefully help, DepoMedrol is CHEAP, and is the Duolcillan LA. It's just penicillin. Like should be 2 pennies a CC.
Just don't want your friend to get ripped off. I am glad it's working. I must say though. That I find it hilarious that with all the new fangled high end medicine, referrals, allergy tests, yadda yadda, the thing that helping is good old steroids and penicillin.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
#67 · (Edited)
Well I hope Gibby gets back on board soon to read Nyx posts - very encouraging!

Heidi, Gibby is doing a LID diet it it's most primal, natural form (except the meat is from Wal-Mart, so not grass fed)...how is that any different from anybody else flip flopping around diff. LID kibble foods - other then the obvious - kibble is dead and you don't know what goes into it AND there are testimonials after testimonials of people who's dogs were restored to good health from a RAW food diet.

HE doesn't need to spend $400 on an e-mail consult from some woman who makes her living designing kibble ingredient diets in a natural form. i.e carrots, rice, berries etc. etc.

What gibby needs is a holistic vet who can detox the carcinogens put into this dog who is immune compromised due to conventional methods of treatment.

Heidi: Furthermore, just because YOU don't believe in a RAW diet, doesn't mean no one else should. The sensationalism in your links is just that. Same old, same old, conventional argument - which goes back to profits, not concern for animal health (or human for that matter)

60 +% of disease can be cured with diet alone.
 
#72 ·
Wow. Really. Are you a VET?
Or are you a Vet Tech?
If it is the former; congrats on passing vet school. Are you specialized in Canine medicine?
If so then please PM Myself and Gibby to find out the more specific symptoms and all the TREATMENTS we have tried. And you can even contact my Vet and see what she has to say.
If you are a Vet Tech; then you only know what you have seen in the office and then what worked for that patient.
Basically if is walks like a duck, and quack likes a duck, then it must be a duck.
I think you should calm down just a little bit :rolleyes:
You don't have to bet a vet to use common sense.
Seems that certain people get very upset almost when you disagree with them. I have news for you...WE are also allowed to post on this board and you don't have to like it.
 
#73 ·
Well I hope Gibby gets back on board soon to read Nyx posts - very encouraging!

Heidi, Gibby is doing a LID diet it it's most primal, natural form (except the meat is from Wal-Mart, so not grass fed)...how is that any different from anybody else flip flopping around diff. LID kibble foods - other then the obvious - kibble is dead and you don't know what goes into it AND there are testimonials after testimonials of people who's dogs were restored to good health from a RAW food diet. I honestly don't care what people feed their dogs. It's the one-sided representation of a raw diet that gets to me. Just give ALL the facts and not just the ones YOU want people to see.

HE doesn't need to spend $400 on an e-mail consult from some woman who makes her living designing kibble ingredient diets in a natural form. i.e carrots, rice, berries etc. etc. What are you talking about??? You really are clueless!

What gibby needs is a holistic vet who can detox the carcinogens put into this dog who is immune compromised due to conventional methods of treatment.

Heidi: Furthermore, just because YOU don't believe in a RAW diet, doesn't mean no one else should. The sensationalism in your links is just that. Same old, same old, conventional argument - which goes back to profits, not concern for animal health (or human for that matter) It doesn't matter whether or not I believe in it. But you honestly want people to believe that you "GatorBytes", a stranger on the internet knows better than these veterinary teaching hospitals :laugh:

60 +% of disease can be cured with diet alone. Let's see some evidence, I am sure you have tons!
 
#75 ·
hew boya...lots of suggestions here. I think the best thing to do, is take these suggestions and write them all down in an organized manner. Do further research on your own on each suggestion. And take the list to your vet.

The last thing you should be doing is throwing all sorts of new things at your dog at once. There is validity in holistic methods but there needs to be a balance in what you are doing. I can't think of a single time that I just jumped on a suggestion and went with it. I always, always, always, do more research and discuss with my vets.

Holistic may mean natural but supplements are still "medicine". Many supplements can counteract a "modern" med.
 
#76 ·
Holy **** guys! There is no need for people to start tearing each other apart on this thread. I've decided to go the holistic method with the RAW diet because conventional methods have outright FAILED. My conventional vet recognizes this and refuses to provide anymore medication whether it be steroid or anti-biotic. They informed me it will only mask the issues and will not correct it which is clear since he's been dosed with both almost ten times at this point.

The Allergy shots are custom tailored shots that contain small dosages of his allergens which he receives on a monthly basis to help his immune system build a tolerance to his environmental allergies. I have decided to continue with these shots because they are for environmental allergies only, not for food allergies (because the vet says they do not help with food allergies since they are consumed....).

I have contacted a local holistic vet as I posted previously, and they verbally confirmed that which Gator and Carmen and Nyx has been advising me to do. Literally to the T. I can appreciate where everyone is coming from and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but arguing back and forth on my thread isn't help anyone. Rather it's just pissing me off. We're all adults here so let's act like it.

So again, I've already exhausted all conventional medications to the point my vet simply will not give anymore. From this point I WILL be going forth with a natural holistic approach which includes the RAW diet. So unless it's a natural remedy or holistic vet please refrain from posting your responses on here because I've already done all I can with my traditional vet. I still regularly attend my vet once a month with Panzer and continue to take any and all suggestions they provide me.

Nyx thank you for your inspiring information on your own dogs recovery! I'm thrilled to hear that your dog was worse off and fully recovered. (not thrilled your dog was that sick, just thrilled he bounced back as he did) And Gator I know it's only been three weeks I was just hoping he would have stopped gnawing new spots on his body.

Now I remember reading that Nyx applied Bag Balm on his dog to help the skin. Is this something I should also apply? Or should I stick only to CO? I'll continue getting the unrefined stuff, I think it works better any how. I also cover his body after every application with a long sleeved shirt to help keep him from licking it off before it does any good........

Thanks again everyone for all your advice! Let's keep it civil though folks!
 
#148 ·
Viking, I don't think you "read" through the whole thread.


I've decided to go the holistic method with the RAW diet because conventional methods have outright FAILED. My conventional vet recognizes this and refuses to provide anymore medication whether it be steroid or anti-biotic. They informed me it will only mask the issues and will not correct it which is clear since he's been dosed with both almost ten times at this point.

The Allergy shots are custom tailored shots that contain small dosages of his allergens which he receives on a monthly basis to help his immune system build a tolerance to his environmental allergies. I have decided to continue with these shots because they are for environmental allergies only, not for food allergies (because the vet says they do not help with food allergies since they are consumed....).

I have contacted a local holistic vet as I posted previously, and they verbally confirmed that which Gator and Carmen and Nyx has been advising me to do. Literally to the T.

So again, I've already exhausted all conventional medications to the point my vet simply will not give anymore. From this point I WILL be going forth with a natural holistic approach which includes the RAW diet. So unless it's a natural remedy or holistic vet please refrain from posting your responses on here because I've already done all I can with my traditional vet. I still regularly attend my vet once a month with Panzer and continue to take any and all suggestions they provide me.

Thanks again everyone for all your advice! Let's keep it civil though folks!
Hi gibby913,

I've read the whole thread and am very sorry to hear about your Panzer's ongoing ordeal. A couple points: A single cortizone shot would shut down ALL itching IF it was due to an allergic reaction of any kind, for a couple days. If ALL itching had ceased, you'd know you're dealing w an allergy (food or environmental).

I think you mentioned earlier that Panzer had been given some cortizone shots back in the beginning of all this and your vet called a halt (which was wise). If all itching doesn't cease completely, its not an allergy. From your descriptions I think Panzer may have sarcoptic mites. They are notoriously hard to capture in skin scrapings for positive diagnosis. In fact, protocol is to treat for mites where symptoms are present even if not found in a scraping. Panzer's immune system is definitely under siege from what you've described, thus compromised and the mites flourish.

A course of Ivermectin will clear the mites. There are 2 protocols. One is a weekly injection for 6 weeks. The other is oral dosage daily for 6 weeks. Oral dosage is a bit more expensive but also more effective, especially for stubborn, deep infections which it sounds like Panzer is suffering. Be advised, the itching will worsen after the first couple days on the Ivermectin as the mites start scurrying around deep in his tissue trying to escape the Ivermectin but thereafter, relief from the itching grows steadily and then it is OVER.

From your description he also has a nasty bacterial infection, secondary to the mites due to scratching/chewing (yellow pus/odor). Hopefully he can still respond to a course of antibiotic for skin infection.

Also sounds like his skin is pretty ravaged. I'd knock off all the vinegar and coconut oil, etc., etc. home remedy stuff. Its not working and may be worsening his ravaged skin.


Six weeks after Ivermectin protocol, problem completely eliminated. We've never looked back. Don't forget, protocol is to treat for mites even where symptoms present despite lack of positive proof under scope. If it isn't mites, the Ivermectin protocol won't hurt him. (Some breeds, mostly Collies have a genetic problem w Ivermectin which makes it poisonous for them but if you have been giving Heartguard, Panzer doesn't have a genetic problem w/it.)
good advice viking
the ivermectin cannot hurt altho i am sure some may think otherwise
and just may cure things
my boy diesel ~ Ivermectin is a pesticide. SO yes it can hurt. and if it can cause death in MDR1 dogs it certainly can cause toxicity in the tissues, organs and blood that circulates throughout the whole body. That's all.


Viking - IF Panzer has been taking ivermectin, then he wouldn't have sarcoptic mange.

Futher, the dog has had 10 courses of steroids and/or antibiotics, has been allergy tested....Yeast infection confirmed and is getting allergy shots.

Now if you factor the abx., steroids suppressing the immune system, you add vaccines on top of this - the dog is 2 and has been going on since a puppy, who at a formidable time of growth and development of immune system has been besieged by toxins, you can bet this was a detriment to his health.

This takes time to heal. Not just the skin here that is an issue. The endocrine system, thyroid - hormones, liver (detox die-off and chemicals). The Thymus gland is responsible for regulating IgG, IgA, IgE in allergic responses.

The RAW diet is the only way to provide essential nutrients in most bio-available form...B vitamins (B3 is indicated for bacterial infections and is being studied for MRSA - a deadly bacteria that abx. is failing and was the cause of) - abundant in eggs, B12 in beef heart. Zinc - organ meats especially baby calves liver, essential for skin and coat health and immune system, "Copper" (in balance with zinc) - Copper surfaces have been tested in hospitals - bacteria cannot live on these surfaces.

Now if irreversible damage has been done to the immune system (auto-immune), then possible that Panzer is suffering from DEMODEX mites (which live harmoniously on a balanced dog) and having an allergic reaction to his own mites - it is at this time that demodex can cause itching, unlike the "puppy" mange dogs go through after vaccination (poor diet and flea/tick crap).

Garlic is an excellent detoxifier and kills mange
Kelp for the thyroid
CO for the yeast
RAW for ALL it's benefits (especially glutathione, amino acid - the most important detoxifier in the body)
Probiotic to restore the bacteria that was killed of by all the various rounds of abx. allowing yeast to proliferate, thus leading to a systemic yeast condition and an immune compromised host that was not able to restore balance due to steroid use.

Milk Thistle is very important to regenerate the cells in the liver - stronger liver helps prevent toxins from seeping back into the body. Supports stronger immune system
 
#77 ·
Bag Balm on his dog to help the skin. Is this something I should also apply?

Not sure what Bag Balm is but I have recently started giving coconut oil to my 2 internally.

I see here people suggest rubbing coconut oil onto the actual skin?

Do you know why you would do this? Is it to relieve the itchiness or does putting it on the skin have other therapeutic benefits?
 
#88 ·
Bag Balm on his dog to help the skin. Is this something I should also apply?

Not sure what Bag Balm is but I have recently started giving coconut oil to my 2 internally.

I see here people suggest rubbing coconut oil onto the actual skin?

Do you know why you would do this? Is it to relieve the itchiness or does putting it on the skin have other therapeutic benefits?
Rubbing the CO on the skin has antibacterial properties which helps get rid of yeast and other pest issues. And yes it also does help condition the skin, helps with the itch, and aids in the healing of any raw areas. Hope this helps :) Oh and Bag Balm is an old topical ointment that was originally used to help cow utters heal from being chapped due to milking. It's really thick like Vaseline but has other skin healing aids in it as well. I grew up on the stuff for burns, skin irritations and even shallow cuts/scrapes. Does wonders for sting and itch due to healing. (Personal experience)
 
#79 ·
Bag Balm- You can get it OTC at any pharmacy or animal store. Animal stores also offer a Vet Pet Balm. nearly the same thing just different packaging.

It is just thicker then CO and creates a protective barrier between the skin and your dogs tongue and other elements.

CO- It has anti micorbic/bacterial properties and will help in killing any yeast and other bugs that might be on your dogs skin. And it also helps to condition/protect the skin. And the un-refined cold pressed CO seems to work the best for us.

With my Dante the CO was helpful on his skin. But he liked to lick it more. So I got the Bag Balm and it stayed put through is gnawing and licking. It also water proofed his feet when they were raw.

I know I kept a food/med diary for Dante. And noted any concerns or improvements in his symptoms and for how long they seemed to last. And yes conventional meds did help him briefly, but quickly wore off and his symptoms would return much worse in a quicker fashion than the first time he had been treated with that medicine.

Gibby I think you are doing very well, especially with all your worry and the current failure of the traditional route with veterinary medicine and counsel.
I can tell you want to do the best you can for Panzer.

I know you don't know me from adam nor can I offer you images of Dante to compare when he was so sick. And that was my fault for not having the guts to do so when he was utterly miserable. But I can offer you my experiences and the out come and hope that they truly help you and your Panzer.


Side note:
I will apologize for my combative reading/sounding statements.
I do get passionate about what I know to be true.

And I do know and have no problem with anyone posting their own advice, thoughts, concerns and truths.

What I wont apologize for is sticking up for those who seek help and advice and getting scary and down right demeaning statements in return.

/end note.
 
#80 ·
add:

Dante did not immediately stop trying to gnaw and lick at himself.

I had to keep cotton shirts on him with the bag balm and chastise him when I caught him licking/gnawing.

He did not stop until the skin was just black/gray(like elephant skin), not hot to the touch or weeping/crusty.

The heat in the red area's started to recede by three/four weeks(not completely disappearing but not radiating out from the source as far).

Then the red started to go away/ seem smaller and then it turned gray.

The crusties/weeping took the longest on the black skin, but it was turning to flakes by two/three months.

Then he lost all his hair, like a heavy shed. It looked like a ragged summer coat but real thin.

The black/gray skin took the longest to turn pink and normal texture again. And both vet's I had been consulting told me it would likely never be pink again.
 
#81 ·
Nyx your fine. If anything I appreciate you chiming in to back me up. I'm stressed out enough about the whole process.....I mean I've tried EVERYTHING else........I figure I might as well give the same devotion to seeing the treatment through as I did everything else. I don't need people giving me gripe about going down an unconventional path.....Im skeptical as is but many people say its done wonders for their animals and I'll be damned if my skepticism gets in the way of Panzer's health. I suppose you were all probably skeptics at first too......
 
#82 ·
Absolutely Gibby. I was really nervous and did not know where to start, how or where to get supplies.

But I sought help because Dante was just getting worse and worse and I was afraid he would be miserable the rest of his life.

The two vets I had; one is his vet since I got him. The second was a second consult vet that was supposed to be very competent. And thankfully my father worked for VCA in Buena Park CA. Through his work and personal contacts we met and spoke through email with Dr. Moore from WSU.

So we had all the conventional medicine treatments available to us. I spent gobs of money and time doing them to be absolutely heart broken when I saw the red hot spots showing back up. Cause I knew shortly he'd have the black skin and weeping.

I know you are scared, both of Panzers current state and failing him through all the treatments. I know you are scared he wont feel better with this regiment in foods and allergy treatments. And I know the pain his eyes give you when he watches you skulkily because he thinks you are only going to apply, wash, or wrap him up in more medicine or clothing. Dante still gives me the 'look' when he thinks I have something he needs to hide from.

And I don't absolutely know that this diet will cure your puppy. But I know the images you posted, I know the information you have shared, and I honestly BELIEVE that he is suffering the same condition my Dante had.

My vet does not know what to call it. So they labeled it as either environmental or food born allergies. But she knows what I have done with his diet. We have a complete record of all the medicines he was on and the commercial and special order kibble and canned food we tried.

And when I stated we were trying this RAW diet, she was afraid. She warned me of the risks and diseases that Dante could contract from eating RAW. And she stated that diet alone could not solve all the problems we were trying to cure.

And every month after we started she was amazed. She asks me what we are doing every time she see's him. We go for weight checks and just to say Hi. She says she would not believe it if she had not been treating him. And she has nothing negative to say anymore.

I talked with butchers and the local food stores. And I had already known about a health food store in town. I check on-line here for advice and support when things get out of my comfort level or I am not sure. My vet is very supportive now and she will look into things as well to help us.
 
#83 · (Edited)
Gator or Carmen........Should I apply CO to the skin once a day and then later apply Bag Balm to his skin after the CO is absorbed/rubbed off? The Bag Balm stayed on his skin through out the night and it seems to have actually deterred him from licking/gnawing his old sores and helped keep him from creating new ones! I just feel as if I stop using the CO I might hinder his bodies battle against the yeast.

What should I do?? Oh and to clarify I am a male (I noticed some awkwardness when addressing my gender :) )
 
#84 ·
Why not apply the CO, and put the bag balm over it. Then the bb would add a layer of protection from being licked off and seal the CO in to do it's job. Allow the CO to absorb though...that's what I love about CO as it absorbs readily unlike other carrier oils suggested for applying essential oils.

Have you looked into neem at all. I have a couple links will add later on - have to take care of my doggies needs right now.

just while on subject of CO and carrier oils...


Thanks for the clarification guy...lol:)
 
#86 · (Edited)
gibby, I think it's good to explore all options, which you are obviously doing.

I like taking a holistic approach to preventing problems, but conventional medicine is sometimes necessary for acute trauma or health crisis.

As for RAW vs kibble, here is a hugely long list of recalled kibble from 2013/2012 published by the AVMA, mostly for salmonella contamination:

https://www.avma.org/news/issues/recalls-alerts/pages/pet-food-safety-recalls-alerts.aspx

There have been no recalls of commercially prepared raw diets FWIW, and I'm pretty sure meat sold for human consumption (if that is what you're feeding) has some pretty strict regulations, so I think the RAW food scare tactic is pretty lame. There are risks with it, sure, but there are with kibble as well.

What I think RAW does give you is a chance to completely eliminate any unnecessary fillers from the dogs diet, which is really helpful when trying to figure out what is triggering these reactions.

OP, you are doing a good job. You've tried conventional medicine and got nowhere, so now holistic might give you some ideas on things to try. It's great that you're keeping an open mind.

It might help to keep a detailed journal of what your dog ate that day, what the weather was like (time of year, what is pollenating/growing in the surrounding area) etc etc. Maybe you can figure out some of the pieces of the puzzle that way, if you can find some sort of a pattern developing.

I really feel for you. Last year my dog had allergies which led to a pyoderma infection, her hair was falling out, she was a mess. It's frustrating and heartbreaking to see them go through that, I hope you can figure something out that will help.

ETA: while you don't want to overdo it with baths, it can sometimes help to rinse off contact allergens off the skin, you might do a bath every now and then (if you aren't already) or a rinse/dip. Stay away from Oatmeal based shampoo's, they are soothing to the skin, but can also feed yeast on the skin.

Nyx, that is an amazing story, thanks for sharing your experience.
 
#87 ·
I agree with Gator and Carmen on the putting the CO on and letting absorb in, then adding the Bag Balm.

And I recall you stating that you were not letting Panzer out to exercise much. But when he is outside for longer periods I would do a rinse. It's like a wipe down with wet wipes or you can use a spray. The vet gave me a spray to use.

And make sure to wipe his feet when he comes in, if you don't have them wrapped.

For wrapping the feet I used toddler knee high socks. I got a few packs of six for a few bucks at wal-mart. I washed them between uses with bleach. I layered his paws in Bag Balm, ran the sock over his foot and then wrapped it with the Vet Wrap. And the Vet Wrap can be re used if it is clean and not all crinkled.

And I don't know any other substitutes for Bag Balm. I do know that the pet stores sell a Balm that is "pet safe" and I have used it. It is called 'Vet Pet Balm' or something similar in name. But it did not seem to work as well for me. It was not as thick and did not last as long.

BTW, how is Panzer feeling now?
Any improvements?
Has the 'heat' and/or redness started to dissipate at all?
 
#91 ·
Original Poster (The person who started the thread. usually used if cannot remember who they are addressing, or the avatar name is too long or complicated...LOL:))
 
#90 ·
Nyx as an update Panzer is in better spirits today but his skin's redness seems to come and go. I'm unsure whats triggering these "flare ups". I can only assume it's from dust since we have forced hot air heating here (mobile home) and its nearly impossible to keep up on. He's lost quite a bit more hair from his chewing, to the point his hair line is approaching his spine. You said Dante lost all his hair before he got better, was that due to it just falling out or from him chewing it? It seems like his hair is whats bothering him since he leaves the bald areas alone and only chews on the hair bordering the bald areas.

Is this normal?
 
#96 ·
Is the hairless skin all gray/black?
and in the area's he is gnawing at, the 'hair-line' where he has some and is loosing it, is the skin red and hot to the touch under the hair?
if it is red and hot, that is likely the newest area to be affected by the "what ever" allergen and is really bugging him.
I really had to keep these area's covered. With the CO and Bag Balm and wrapped under a cotton shirt until the heat and redness went away.
Dante Lost all his hair as the black/gray skin started to turn pink.
It was like all the bad stuff had to be shed as he was getting healthier. I think even the hair was infused with the "bad stuff" and it had to be shed away.

On Dante the red skin was hot feeling. It was the newest area's that were being affected. The black/gray skin was the area after the red had irritated it. It then seeped this gross yellow stuff that crusted and flaked on his skin and in his hair.

And if the redness is receding then returning, it may be that his system is now flushing out the bad stuff. It might help if you took images daily or drew a line between the red area and pink skin. To give you a visual if it is actually receding or spreading out more.

And the more he has his paws and teeth on it, the more the color may change as he aggravates the area. I know how difficult it is to keep them from irritating it more - but the less he gnaws or itches the better for him.

I did have to get a Victorian color for Dante at the worst of it. It was $80 and it is like a huge belt that goes around his neck and has a strap that went about his chest. He broke his donuts every time he went out doors and on the tables inside and they gave us this 'flower' like thing that was supposed to keep him from reaching himself, but he learned how to bend it against the wall.

I think that might be the best thing right now. Save you some head-ache and spare him from hurting himself more by chewing and licking.
 
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