Ear Infection - Serious Fright Aggression Against Vet (moved to health issues) - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 294
Default Ear Infection - Serious Fright Aggression Against Vet (moved to health issues)

Well, we won't be invited back to two vets now that both tried to treat my Zeus' ear infection. My 14 month GSD nearly ripped the hands off and throats out of the Vet and his technicians the moment they touched him.

It didn't matter whether they inserted an anal thermometer, put an otoscope near his ear to look inside or just placed a stethoscope on his flank. He was afraid and tried to bite.

The vets said they didn't want to work with him and just prescribed some medications to wash his ears.

I can touch the dog anywhere, including his ears. I can insert my fingers and thumb into his ear a long ways down. But I know he's sensitive to having anything squirted in his ears like bath water, even though he loves the lake. So, I never try to force anything into his ears if he objects to it.

He's the absolutely nicest animal at home and around family. The most we get out of him is an alarm bark when the doorbell goes off. He used to suspicious of people in public. But that's wearing off quickly too. If he ever growls at someone he's immediately dressed down about it (only happened twice in his life).

But get around the vet and, in particular, try to work on his ears and its' game on. He's literally Dr. Jekel and Mr. Hyde.

I've also called on his trainer to try to put ear medication in his ear. And, after about 15 minutes of muzzling him with a leash and trying to forcefully medicate him the trainer stopped. He said this is a real phobia and if we press him too hard we're going to imprint him lastingly with fear of medical treatment.

He also said he could be turned aggressive. It's really hard to imagine Zeus being naturally aggressive. He absolutely so sweet.

The vet wants to put him in a gas enclosure and sedate him so as to treat the ears. The breeder says absolutely not. The breeder says that adrenaline and sedatives don't mix and that Zeus could easily die on the table.

The trainer says the same and adds that he doesn't smell any infection in his ears at all. That's one of the first things I did too was to smell his ears...nothing. But there was a considerable amount of black material in his ears and he was scratching them all the time.

The trainer, ex-military, also says he hates civilian vets who treat little foo-foo dogs for a $100,000 a year living but won't even consider working on a working dog like Zeus who is vet aggressive.

The vets can't be blamed here if their recommendations are wrong on the ear infection and sedating him as they've never gotten close enough to his ears to actually inspect them. So, they're sort of going on what we tell them about him shaking his head, scratching his ears and even wearing a bit of the fur off the leading edge of his ears.

Any thoughts, guidance or advice would be appreciate.

My trainer saw my demeanor when he, a military trainer couldn't medicate his ears and told me not to be afraid of the dog. He said that what we saw then was not Zeus but another personality altogether.

I assure you I'm unafraid. But I'm sure worried and concerned about the impact further treatment of this infection might have on our relationship with the dog.

Oh, the vets continue to tell me that there are no oral antibiotics that can be administered to the dog to treat the ear infection. I find that absolutely incredible. My doctor and the kids' pediatrician don't treat our ear infections with ear washes. The prescribe erythromycin or tetracycline or some other oral antibiotic.

My wife's doctor doesn't treat her anxiety attacks from a recent auto accident with sedating gas. He quite properly prescribes Xanax.

So, what's up with a $400 gas chamber event when similar degrees of oral sedation are so common in human medicine. And, what's up with having to manipulate the dog's ears at all when not only ear infections but also complete system-wide sepsis is treated in humans with oral antibiotics or at the most an IV antibiotic? I just don't get it.

LF

Last edited by Longfisher; 12-17-2013 at 06:52 PM.
Longfisher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-17-2013, 06:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
trcy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,377
Default

When my dog had an ear infection they gave him a shot and this creamy medication we had to put in his ear. My dog was pretty good about it, but he is 30 pounds. I'm not sure how we would man handle the GAD if he didn't want medication in his ears. I do know it would involve treats after we successfully delivered the dose.
__________________
Riley - 11/05/2012-8/30/2013 (Myasthenia Gravis)
He will always be in my heart.
trcy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 06:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
Moderator
 
JakodaCD OA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Old Lyme, CT USA
Posts: 20,993
Default

My female is terrified of my vet First dog I've ever had that was..She's fine in the waiting room, fine with the techs, the vet walks in, all bets are off..what's weird is, my vet is a friend of mine, if she comes to my house Masi is fine, but I can't have her treating her at my house should something come up.

Anyhow, I muzzle her when we go to the vets, I would NEVER put my dog in a gas chamber to knock them out.

If you muzzle him, the vet SHOULD be able to jab him with a sedative to knock him out to do whatever they have to do. If they are afraid of him, maybe they could show YOU how to inject him to knock him out.
__________________
Diane

Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi
Tranquillo's Kizzy
"Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC
"Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge
JakodaCD OA is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
If they are afraid of him, maybe they could show YOU how to inject him to knock him out.
I graduate from a medical school (human biochemical research PH.D.) with experience as a phlebotomist. Wife is an RN. We would require very little instruction to handle a hypodermic injection or even to start an IV.

We told the vets this but they won't trust us to do it...PERIOD.

It's mystifying to me. I simply can't understand the way they practice medicine as it's so counter-intuitive to someone with medical training.

LF

Last edited by Longfisher; 12-17-2013 at 07:05 PM.
Longfisher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
JakodaCD OA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Old Lyme, CT USA
Posts: 20,993
Default

well heck YOU ARE qualified ) I'd find another vets office.
__________________
Diane

Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi
Tranquillo's Kizzy
"Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC
"Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge
JakodaCD OA is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Springbrz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 650
Default

I have no suggestions on the vet aggression. I have had personal experience with dogs with ear gunk. We had a dog with black gunk in her ears. She had both an ear infection and a yeast infection in her ears (it did smell). The vet did prescribe an oral antibiotic for the bacterial infection and special antifungal ear wash for the yeast. We just wet(soaked) cosmetic pads with the wash and gently pushed it into the ear (but not to far). Then we rubbed the ear like we were giving a loving ear rub with lots of praise and lovey dovey talk to work things around. Then we pulled the dirty pad out. It seemed to work a lot better than trying to squirt the stuff in the ear. If the ear doesn't smell it might be ear mites and not an infection. I don't think antibiotics work on ear mites.
Springbrz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
GatorBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 3,340
Default

other then muzzle at the vet, I cannot comment on that. However, I can suggest a few things that will help your dogs ears and will not cause pain and suffering, will kill the microbes and emulsify the gunk so you can get it out.

1) Coconut oil (raw organic), put some in a sep. glass container, wrap your finger with thin soft cloth and dig out some C.O., will melt on contact with the ear as you swirl around cleaning it - the oil will melt into ear canal and emulsify the deep down stuff (yeast), rub the ear at base of head to help work it in. As stuff moves up, CO again for cleaning - this will not hurt, KILL yeast and bad bacteria and will sooth inflammation.

2) Ear oil, St francis or NOW or other - Olive oil base with Mullein (excellent antibacterial/anti-yeast herb - soothing), garlic, St. Johns wort, tea tree and calendula (also very soothing and healing)

3) zymox - available online is for ear infections and has a probiotic in it to repopulate the good bacteria that keeps the bad and yeasts at bay. Also have a mild cortisone version for tuff infections that require.

You can buy a tincture of Mullein and add to the CO (just 4-5 drops/ tblsp of CO) and create your own ear oil. My dog wouldn't tolerate any ear probing with any product until I started using the coconut oil, everything else, the gunk just kept coming, after first treatment with CO, noticeably better, I think needed to do 3-4 x and then touch up month or so or whenever saw signs of yeast.

The vet is right, no abx. is going to treat a yeasty ear.
Hope this helps
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown
GatorBytes is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 875
Default

As was said on another thread use ACV mixed with water to clean the dogs ears. I have a dropper and drop a few drops in and then leave for 5 minutes and then wipe clean with a cotton bud wrapped with extra cotton wool. I also use a small torch which I hold in my mouth so I can see into the ear properly.

Garlic is said to contain natural antibiotic for the ears. Soak garlic in olive oil for a few hours and it's ready to go.

Your dog could have ear mites if there is a black/brown residue coming out of the ears. My dogs had these and I used Olive oil/neem oil mix 70/30mix and cider vinegar 50/50 everyday for a couple of weeks. (Some dogs are very sensitive to Cider vinegar. It is better to get a dog used to oil first and work up to ACV if a dog doesn't like getting it's ears cleaned)

If the dog is really sensitive in his ears prob better to get him used to touching the ears and desensitizing him to touch there before you go putting in vinegar or any cleaners.

I always clean and treat my dogs ears when they are lying on their side. I find it much easier to control a dog lying sideways.

You can practice with putting the dog in a down and then trying to teach him to roll over from there onto his side. You can do this with food to start getting the dog used to it.

Once the dog is on his side, you check the ears, feet, legs, belly, just to get him used to being touched and lying still. I will usually get a cotton bud then and let the dog smell it so he knows it is no harm to him, and then I'll touch him around the ear with the bud so he can get used to the sensation.

Then tell him roll over and do the other side. Then tell him free and give him another treat. He should start to associate the process with good things or at least a neutral energy.

Then go through the same process putting a little oil into the ear. I'd start with olive oil as this is good for the dogs ears and a taste and scent that a dog may like. Put the oil on a cotton bud, give the dog a scent of it and then gentle rub his ears with it. After a few times of this, you can get a dropper and go through the same process and drop a small amount of oil into the ears.

Over time the dog begins to accept this treatment as normal. Sometimes you have to counter a dogs desire to get up and escape. That's why I find it easier when the dog is lying sideways to begin with. It is pretty easy to keep them there and relax them and do a bit of an inspection or clean the ears or whatever. If they get flighty or try to twist wait and put a bit of pressure on them so they know to stay. I will hold the dog by the neck and where back leg joins body. They can't get up if done properly. If a dog does struggle it soon realizes it is in vain and gives up. I can't see many dogs actually enjoying getting their ears cleaned but they will tolerate it if you do it right.
MadLab is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,536
Default

Muzzle is my protocol for my aggressive dog. Though my vet really doesn't want to vet my dog either. Especially a procedure that takes some time. Xanax for vet visit is an option, but I've heard you should give it for awhile before just giving a dose for a vet visit. Valium may be more effective, not having to be built up in the system.
I've aced my dog for vetting, but it completely frustrates her and she gets more aggressive because her mind is not calm, and her body won't do what her mind wants. I'd rather have a calm mind and body.
That said, I use Zymox for my dogs ear issues, it is effective for yeast and bacteria, once a day treatment for 10 days.
This is the size I get, because my dog has environmental allergies/ ears are always getting gunky: Zymox Otic with Hydrocortisone (1.0%) - Clinic Size (8oz)
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master Member
 
erfunhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Santa Clarita Valley, Ca
Posts: 942
Default

Our metro had yucky ears, but loved to have them rubbed...to clean them we would wrap a paper towel around our ears and rub them...he would lean in to control how deep our fingers went, but that's how we cleaned them. He was never aggressive toward the vet...but are they exhibiting fear? I've had just about every vet we saw act afraid of our shepherd! One vet even had us hold his head before he listened to his heart!

I get the fear---really I do! But they went into a field where instead of someone cussing them out, there are growls and snaps. I work with some patients that can be paranoid schizophrenic...and THOSE are some scary patients, especially when they have a foot and a good 100 lbs on you! That's freaky...but I don't charge in there with a sedative just to do an assessment! What are you feeding him? Perhaps a week or so on a RAW diet will help clear out some of the problem along with the cleaning advice you've been given? If you wanna do the sedative yourself, I would still listen to the vet on how to do it. As an RN myself who can stick a vein in the most combative patient I would never assume that I can do the same to a dog. Knowing how to given an injection/insert an IV in a human is not the same as an animal.
__________________
Sabo- March 19, 2013
Metro- November 2006- May 29, 2013
Instagram- http://instagram.com/erfunhouse
Sabo's Blog (I'm nuts)
erfunhouse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum