4yr old Zaki's meds. When to say "Enough!"?

[Abu Zaki]

First, meet HAPPY & LOVES EVERYONE Zaki (w/granddaughter)

Zaki's breeder is at minerdranch.com



Now meet the real Zaki: His Meds


Zaki has Idiopathic seisures every 2 or 3 months. He's been hospitalized 3 times for cluster seizures. Neurological diagnosis and hospital treatment is never less than a $thousand dollars$$.

Zaki also has a coat&skin with no immunity to allergens or bacteria (we beat ourselves up for 3 years for not being able to find "the right food", until we finally took him to a dermatologist. It wasn't FOOD allergies, it was his coat/skin.

A side effect of the daily sedatives seems to have heightened his sense of smell to the point of obsession around the house (sniffing & licking the floor). And... (this was a first), the other day, in the blink of an eye he swallowed my wife's brownie, napkin & all from the coffee table. She was right there! He has NEVER done that... The chocolate and or napkin clogged his system. The olive oil seems to be working, but we feared a second trip to the hospital for "object removal". Last time was $2400... and that was only endoscopic...not surgery.

Last night, thinking another $2500-3500 vet bill, was the first time we talked about maybe it's time to stop and put him down.

Though he sleeps in our bedroom with us. When we leave the house, he can no longer guard the house, because he has to stay in the laundry room to protect him in case of seizures. Yes, he's had them while we were out... welcome home to a poop splattered laundry room! (and an embarrassed, confused, noble 110lb GSD.)

His regular medical MAINTENANCE cost (not counting all the trips to hospital, vets & specialists) is approx. as follows:

Daily seizure meds $100/mo
Atopica anti-puritic $100/mo
Allergy shots $225/3 mo vial

Other meds needed continually on-hand:
Valium suppositories $100 for 20
Periodic blood work to monitor drug levels $150
And Benadryl, and Chlorazepate, and prescription flea meds, medicated shampoo etc etc...

All told, in just 4 years, we've spent easily over $10,000!!! Insurance helps some but not all. Nor does it address the heart ache and pain in the butt!

I've loved GSDs my whole life. Zaki is my third. The worst casualty is that after this experience, we will probably never get another. Definitely not another $700 AKC GSD.

Thanks for letting me rant. But I think we will have this "DNR"... "when is 'enough' enough!? conversation again... sooner rather than later.

If anyone has any experience with long term phenobarb/zonisamide side effects (like the smelling) (or less than snappy (dazed) obedience) please chime in.

[JakodaCD OA]

how old is Zak? I'm thinking around 4-5 since you said in just 4 years.

It's obviously up to you, no one can make the decision for you..he's on ALOTTA meds

I honestly don't know what I would, tho I've had some hefty vet bills, but not continuous issues

I dunno, have you thought of consulting a homeopathic vet and start over??

Very tough decision, he's a gorgeous boy

[GatorBytes]

What came first?

If your dog doesn't have allergies, then why is he getting shots? If there is no allergin, then what are they making to "desensitize"

Do yo know what Atopica is? it's a highly toxic mycotoxin
Atopica: A Dangerous Path To Take Dogs Naturally Magazine

Atopica is a last resort when pred. fails so why is he getting pred too???

Def. re-think your vet and go see a holistic one.

I saw you post on the idiopathic seizures thread, did you read any of teh peer reviewed links re: magnesium, scullcap, cococnut oil, diet change.

Here are a couple more Bovine colostrum for the immune system, seacure - a predigested fish protein loaded with highly bio-available amino acids - another factor in helping seizures.

Take him off HW/flea prevention - HW is only req'd to treat post possible bites and that is only when teh daog has been bit by both a female and male mosquito and only survive in the mosquito if temps run 56 degrees consecutive day AND night for TWO weeks. Prevent mosquito's by rubbing in some eucalyptus oil - use on myself and dog, it works.

HW meds are pesticides - pesticides are linked to seizures

NO vaccines - aluminum (the adjuvant) is proven, when injected is taken up by the blood and lymphatic system and to the brain - very few nutrients can even pass the blood brain barrier - aluminum can and does damage and may be the initial cause of the seizures, that and other toxins.

Your dog is toxic and your vet is doing it, this is so sad and makes me furious that your poor dog is being drugged to death.

I have many other suggestions and have some links for you to read as well the ones over on the other post, so please review for your dogs sake. Will post later.

[JakodaCD OA]

I'll be the first to admit I sometimes do not agree with gator above

However, thinking about this, I would take mine off the flea meds, hw meds, and no vax for sure.

The atopica, I had one of mine on it for 3 months (pf's),,it was recommended NOT for long term use, powerful drug did the trick for mine, but I wouldn't have used it longer than 6 months if I "had" to.

I didn't see pred, but may have missed it, also can be a good all around drug, but wouldn't want to use long term..

I do know pred could increase his appetite, thus, the food stealing))) I had one on pred once, he ate an almost 10lb bin of dog biscuits NEVER had done anything like that before,,..

I can't tell you to take him off other things, again, your choice, I am not a vet, nor claim to be one, but I do think I agree with gator, your vet has him on alot of heavy duty drugs that could be doing more harm than good

Hope you can find something that works for Zak..

[jocoyn]

All I can say is what is there to loose going with a holistic vet if you are at a last resort stage? I have not faced anything like this so don't know what you are going through but it sounds like an awful lot, particularly with uncontrolled seizures.

[TANDB]

Interested to know what came first, the skin condition or the seizures? I also would not give vaccines or HW/flea meds to a dog with these issues. I feel bad for you guys : (
Tammi

[Abu Zaki]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to feedback.

Just to clarify: Everyone asked: "What came first?"

Zaki was chewing at his paws from 8 weeks when we brought him home. We thought it was a "nervous tick". 3 years later the Dermatologist explained this was the first sign of allergies.
The paw chewing immediate\ly turned to manic itching and chewing rump until raw sores. During these 3 years, all we ever heard was "what are you feeding him?" We made home cooked meals. We tried grain free after grain free kibbles. Nothing we fed him made any difference.

Then... at 2 1/2 years he had his first seizures.

We have now tracked several rounds of seizures following very itchy weeks, and we now believe that the early and unrelenting "torture" of itching eventually provoked the seizures. The neurologist thinks that is very possible.

These drugs are NOT prescribed by his vet. They are prescribed by his neurologist and his dermatologist (each aware of the other)

So... @Gator: Zaki was already under neurologist care when we resorted to the specialized dermatologist for his itching (giving up on dietary causes). First though, we tried to contact the one highly recommended holistic vet serving Seattle to Bellingham. They neither answered our calls or answered my email detailing his condition. So we went to the Dermatologist. As I remember (I posted here at the time) he was allergic to some 30 of 60 substances tested for! That's when the shots began. But they are not enough. He still needs the occasional Prednizone & Benadryl. But the Dermatologist prefers him being on a long term half dose of Atopica. And, it is the Dermatologist who prescribed the Sentinal flea & tick.

The Neurologist and Dermatologist are the specialists, treating thousands of dogs over the years. I am just a pet owner.

Are you a holistic vet? Or are you just a pet owner that has had good success with your particular dogs with holistic medicine?

Having said that, I would still be willing to get the holistic vet's opinion.

Zaki got over yesterday's browny/napkin crisis (I felt so bad, I just layed on the floor petting him last night). We still don't know if it was the chocolate or the clogging napkin... or both.

He's back to his normal HIGH MAINTENANCE HAPPY self.

Zaki will be 4 yrs old in 10 days. He's part of our family we wish him a long life, but we don't want him to suffer either.

Paul

[marshies]

You've done more for this dog than many are willing, or have the resources to do. He's so lucky to have you and your family.

I have no expertise to offer, but looking at my dog, it would kill me if she suffered like yours do with or without treatment.

[GatorBytes]

No I am not a vet....But I would never put anything in my dog I wouldn't put or use on myself

Has your dog been tested for MDR1? Cheek swab, around $70

The real challenge with heartworm prevention comes for the dogs who have a mutation of the MDR (multi drug resistance) gene. These dogs have problems metabolizing certain drugs safely, so they don’t limit drug absorption and distribution. Think of it as “leaky brain/blood barrier.”

Depending on the dose of the drug, these dogs can become ill or even die. Drugs that cause problems in these dogs include: acepromazine, butorphanol, doxorubicin, erythromycin, ivermectin, loperamide, milbemycin, moxidectin, rifampin, selamectin, vinblastine and vincristine. These drugs run the gamut from tranquilizers to antibiotics to chemotherapy drugs and, significantly, heartworm preventives

Sentinal's active ingredient is milbemycin
Essentially this mutation is an inability to clear the brain of types of drugs, these build up and cause neuro-toxicity, seizures and death.
10% of GSD's are prone to this mutation.

Jakoda can elaborate more on this as she has an MDR1 dog(s?), Border collie(?) I forget.

[sparra]

No harm taking him to see a holistic vet BUT I would not be taking him off ANY medication until you find a good one.