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Old 01-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The swelling has gone down completely, thankfully. He seems tired...but he also spent the day at my parents' so someone could monitor him while I was at work, and any change in his routine seems to wear him out.

As far as what type of arrhythmia, they wouldn't say what they were hearing. I found it odd, but it wasn't our regular vet, so I wasn't sure what to expect with him. I suppose I also didn't find it too odd since it was the basic procedure I got when they found my own heart issue - discovered a problem, sent me straight to a specialist.

Hopefully I'll know more on Thursday when we meet with the cardiologist. I've heard good things about this clinic, so here's hoping they live up to their reputation.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis_Star View Post
That is for a combination of 3 different drugs! No where in there is diphenhydramine listed! THIS is why much internet information needs to be taken lightly, especially when it is going against information that almost every single veterinarian on the planet will tell you.

Upon looking through Plumb's, the veterinary drug handbook, irregular cardiac rhythm is not noted. It IS noted to use with caution in patients with cardiac disease, do keep that in mind. As of yet, this is not cardiac disease, and not even clearly defined.

http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth/D...nhydramine.pdf

Diphenhydramine HCl

LOL...I pasted the wrong link...

what does "use caution" constitute?...and since cardiac disease is NOT clearly defined, then wouldn't "caution" mean DON'T use?

and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GatorBytes View Post
LOL...I pasted the wrong link...

what does "use caution" constitute?...and since cardiac disease is NOT clearly defined, then wouldn't "caution" mean DON'T use?

and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?
No I agree on the cardiac part, which is why I posted that it does say do not give to a dog with cardiac disease. I put that this problem right now might NOT be cardiac disease, could be a result of whatever was causing the inflammation on the nose. But I did put that out there, since there is a cardiologist appointment for this week.

As well, NOTHING as far as medication should be dosed or recommended over the internet. The OP spoke with their vet, and you told them they should find a new vet since their vet should of known to NEVER give benadryl...
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by evybear15 View Post
The swelling has gone down completely, thankfully. He seems tired...but he also spent the day at my parents' so someone could monitor him while I was at work, and any change in his routine seems to wear him out.

As far as what type of arrhythmia, they wouldn't say what they were hearing. I found it odd, but it wasn't our regular vet, so I wasn't sure what to expect with him. I suppose I also didn't find it too odd since it was the basic procedure I got when they found my own heart issue - discovered a problem, sent me straight to a specialist.

Hopefully I'll know more on Thursday when we meet with the cardiologist. I've heard good things about this clinic, so here's hoping they live up to their reputation.
Good! Please keep us posted with an update, it will be interesting to hear what they find, if anything (here's to hoping it's nothing!)
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?
Quote:
I've given him Benadryl (per recommendations of his breeder and the animal hospital),
When the OP came on here, Benadryl had been given. In this case, yes it should have been used and was used correctly.

I've seen you advise people leaving their vets numerous times over the slightest issues and this isn't a slight one - a dog that can't breathe correctly will die, cardiac disease or not.

So why tell them to leave their vet as "this one should have known"? It seems only after the OP took their dog in did they find a possible arrhythmia, although I could have the sequence of events wrong, the OP has stated the vet told her to use Benadryl, not people on the internet.

Even in the face of an arrhythmia, if the patient cannot breathe, it may well perish.
Since it wasn't known if the swelling would continue to spread (between pic 1 and pic 2 it had increased), Benadryl was absolutely the correct course of action, as per the OPs veterinarian, and to tell them to leave this vet isn't good advice. Their vet has everything under control and the patient is still alive. In fact, vets actually like their patients alive, believe it or not.

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Good! Please keep us posted with an update, it will be interesting to hear what they find, if anything (here's to hoping it's nothing!)
I'm hoping and praying it's just a scare too, please let us know.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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He never seemed to be having trouble breathing, but I wanted to administer SOMETHING before that started to happen as I didn't know what caused the swelling, if it was going to get worse, etc. But I absolutely checked with both the breeder and the e-vet before administering benadryl - I'm very, very cautious with giving anything to Baxter without doing at least SOME research first. I certainly don't claim to know everything, but I try to be somewhat informed.

I'm trying very, very hard not to over-analyze every past behavior, health issue, current behavior, etc., and think of the ways that they could be indicators of a problem that I missed. It's easy to do, but not helpful. Honestly? I hated leaving him this morning, and I just keep reminding myself that it COULD be nothing.

The breeder has never had any heart conditions crop up in any of their dogs, so Baxter would be the first if there is a problem.

Either way, I'll absolutely update you all on the outcome of tomorrow's appointment!
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You did the right thing, Evy and so did the e-vet and your own vet. Don't second guess it
Quite honestly, we use benadryl frequently in our own house, for family and the dogs, with no issues at all
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:06 AM   #28 (permalink)
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As I said before, anytime we see facial swelling related to a possible allergic reaction we give benadryl unless otherwise indicated
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:30 AM   #29 (permalink)
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This, in bold...is why I refered to the benedryl as possible cause for the irregular heart beat....despite what the books tell you about drug symtoms, they are still drugs, and can affect one diff. from another...I know a person who cannot take anti-histamine as the opposite of feeling drowsy happens, they get trembley and their heart races....that's why I ref'd it and put it forth....SO Evybear can BREATHE...

Regardless and not knowing what the vet discussed, or suggested in her small follow-up post...the Vet could have said, this might be a simple reaction to the benedryl, come back for a follow-up in a day or two and we'll have a listen when it's out of his system....THEN, he can put the fear heart trouble in her IF it so exists....

initially it seemed based on another thread that this was going to be an expensive test (400.00), so I gasped at that - clearly $60.00 is not and is a f/u exam....

My vets charge 1/2 price for a f/u.

Some vets (NOT ALL), take advantage of the "first do no harm" by padding the bottom line with non-invasive testing - It can't hurt the symptom is there, lets make a $, we find nothing, we have a happy client - this is clearly not an emergency or she would have been sent ASAP that day to cardiologist....

Quote:
Originally Posted by evybear15 View Post
I'm trying very, very hard not to over-analyze every past behavior, health issue, current behavior, etc., and think of the ways that they could be indicators of a problem that I missed. It's easy to do, but not helpful. Honestly? I hated leaving him this morning, and I just keep reminding myself that it COULD be nothing.

Below - I have seen many people suggest leaving their vet and getting another opinion...When I do, it is to another vet that is going to focus on wellness - not drug therapy where it can be avoided...no where here is there a breathing issue, and no where here should this issue be made about what you think about me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
When the OP came on here, Benadryl had been given. In this case, yes it should have been used and was used correctly.

I've seen you advise people leaving their vets numerous times over the slightest issues and this isn't a slight one - a dog that can't breathe correctly will die, cardiac disease or not.

So why tell them to leave their vet as "this one should have known"? It seems only after the OP took their dog in did they find a possible arrhythmia, although I could have the sequence of events wrong, the OP has stated the vet told her to use Benadryl, not people on the internet.

Even in the face of an arrhythmia, if the patient cannot breathe, it may well perish.
Since it wasn't known if the swelling would continue to spread (between pic 1 and pic 2 it had increased), Benadryl was absolutely the correct course of action, as per the OPs veterinarian, and to tell them to leave this vet isn't good advice. Their vet has everything under control and the patient is still alive. In fact, vets actually like their patients alive, believe it or not.



I'm hoping and praying it's just a scare too, please let us know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
You did the right thing, Evy and so did the e-vet and your own vet. Don't second guess it
Quite honestly, we use benadryl frequently in our own house, for family and the dogs, with no issues at all
msvete ~ I NEVER said the OP did anything wrong!!!!!!! So kindly stop worming and twisting words to make your proclaimations and stop POLICING other peoples threads and wagging your finger at those who post their opinions, whether said opinion is wrong in YOUR mind....it is your contorsion of others words that lend others to believe what YOU implied and is now out of context....again and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis_Star View Post
As I said before, anytime we see facial swelling related to a possible allergic reaction we give benadryl unless otherwise indicated
Anubus - Although, benedryl is the top of the list and considered most safe...This person was advised over the phone...so how do you determine "otherwise indicated"...Why not just go to the vet?

Benedryl is grossly overscripted on this forum for every little skin issue for any dog, puppy, senior b/c teh belief is it is "perfectly" safe...clearly although mostly....not "perfectly" and not in everyone or dog

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment about seeing another vet, is that this one (maybe), by using fear based marketing has caused the poor dog owner 3 days of anxiety...YES!!!!...It happens...If he had just said - "it might be the benedryl"

With the change in the vax. protocol (30% of a clinic's revenue - or something like that) - Vet's have to come up with new ways to sell services to maintain and/or improve their bottom line....


Evybear - Hope you didn't think I was implying you did anything wrong...not even giving the benedryl...It was solely to put your mind at ease

Good luck today
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Last edited by GatorBytes; 01-24-2013 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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No worries, GatorBytes! I wasn't concerned that I did anything wrong - I'm pretty overprotective of this pup, so I wouldn't give him something if I wasn't fairly confident that it would be safe, or that the benefits outweighed the risks. That said, I enjoy hearing perspectives from all side. In my opinion, the more information given, the more aware I am in my own decision making for Baxter's care. I may lean more toward the holistic for some issues, more toward conventional in others - whatever Baxter responds best to! I have contemplated looking for a different or secondary vet for him. While I love our regular vet, and Baxter ADORES him and all of the staff (to the point that he gets very very happy and excited when he sees where we're going), I do sometimes feel that the examinations aren't as thorough as I would like. I have not yet found out that I am completely confident in, so I haven't made that step just yet.

To be fair to the vet we did see, he probably didn't offer me any reassurances as to what could have caused it because my initial panic-reaction is to get very calm and focused. He could have felt that I didn't really need that reassurance. Even my own family misreads my reactions to stress all the time. Unfortunately, when I truly am NOT stressed, then they assume that I am.

Even if they had given me the option of coming back in for a follow-up appointment, OR going to see a cardiologist... I probably would have opted for the cardiologist anyway. I feel more at ease knowing that a specialist will be looking him over, as I would assume they would be able to detect a more subtle issue.

In any case, I should focus on work so I can keep busy and make the day go by faster! I'll stop back in later to let you all know the verdict
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