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-   -   B12 levels low, but good news! (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/201193-b12-levels-low-but-good-news.html)

3dognite 01-10-2013 07:33 PM

B12 levels low, but good news!
 
We had the TLI/Cobalamin/Folate tests done on Tuesday and the vet called with good news.

He doesn't have EPI and he said that the folate (test for SIBO?) was good. The bad news is that B12 levels are very low, low enough to warrant shots once a week for at least a while.

I don't have all the numbers tonight, will get them tomorrow when I pick up the b12 shot supplies.

Thoughts on all of this?

Cassidy's Mom 01-10-2013 07:34 PM

Do you have a prior thread about this? Maybe you could post a link to it. :)

3dognite 01-10-2013 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom (Post 2712657)
Do you have a prior thread about this? Maybe you could post a link to it. :)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...606-e-p-i.html

Capone22 01-10-2013 08:06 PM

What else would cause low b12. I would imagine that doesn't just happen. Something else would have to cause it, no?


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Cassidy's Mom 01-10-2013 08:12 PM

Thanks! The fact that his B12 levels are low, even though folate is fine, is an indication of SIBO. If I remember correctly Keefer's folate was okay too, but his B12 was low. It's possible it was the other way around though, it was a long time ago. I do remember that one was okay but the other wasn't.

SIBO can be either chronic - generally with no known cause, or acute - secondary to something else. I believe Keefer's was due to the giardia that he was diagnosed with at the same time. Since the original test was negative (the giardia antigen test is what picked it up), he had it for awhile and that probably caused an upset in his digestive system that threw it out of balance.

I don't know that for sure, but once he was treated for the giardia and SIBO he was fine, and never had a recurrence. Some SIBO dogs need long term meds and/or special food for life to keep it under control. The only way we could get formed stool during treatment was to put him on prescription Z/D Ultra (yeah, I know - yuck!), but I was able to transition him back to his regular food following treatment.

How old is Rebel, and how long has this been going on? Did your vet talk about antibiotics too? Generally, it's 4 weeks of either Tylan or Tetracycline.

GatorBytes 01-10-2013 08:25 PM

Low B12 is indicative of chronic soft stool/diarrhea, malabsorption syndrome, pernacious anemia, lack of intrisic factor (enzyme that carries B12) w/o oral B12 is excreted.

L-glutamine to repair the villi of the small intestine (re: malabsorption) if there is damage to the GI tract from parasites, yeast, SIBO or other microbes.

3dognite 01-10-2013 08:26 PM

The reading I've been doing indicates that B12 deficiency can be a problem from a really young age. He's always been underweight, but not so underweight that the vets have wanted to run bloodwork. He's always been prone to diarrhea (he's almost 10), to the point where I rarely gave any treats at all, and really didn't want to change foods because of the length of time it took for him to adjust. He was fed Nutro Natural large breed adult food til he was about 5, and then Kirkland signature lamb and rice combined with Kirkland signature chicken for the other 4+ years. Now he's on the Nature's Domain Turkey and sweet potato--when he'll deign to eat. I've been mixing it with TOTW canned (pacific is the only one he'll eat of the 2 I've tried--the other is the high plains bison and lamb).

The vet didn't say anything about antibiotics, but I can get Tylan here at the ranch store if you think it would be a good thing. Maybe I'll ask if they'll do a fecal (on the clean up of the diarrhea bout he had tonight) when I go into the vet tomorrow? Do you suppose that would tell us anymore? The accident he had tonight was at least not mostly liquid...it was slightly more liquid that pudding and was not as stinky as it's been.

THe vet was pretty certain about SIBO...but I can ask tomorrow.

3dognite 01-10-2013 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBytes (Post 2712977)
Low B12 is indicative of chronic soft stool/diarrhea, malabsorption syndrome, pernacious anemia, lack of intrisic factor (enzyme that carries B12) w/o oral B12 is excreted.

L-glutamine to repair the villi of the small intestine (re: malabsorption) if there is damage to the GI tract from parasites, yeast, SIBO or other microbes.

All of the first paragraph looks like my dog. L-Glutamine...what is that, where do I find it and how do I administer it?

Like I said in my pp, he did have an episode of diarrhea tonight in the house, I've bagged it and will drop it at the vet for them to test for me. Hopefully that will tell some more.

Cassidy's Mom 01-10-2013 08:34 PM

You can buy L-Glutamine at a health food store, and maybe even at a larger drug store. This is the digestive supplement I gave Keef: Berte's Digestion Blend (1 lb.) Berte's Digestion Blend - bacterial pancreatic IBD and GI supplement [04016] - $40.95

BERTE'S DIGESTION BLEND (1 LB.)

Description: Berte's Digestion Blend contains beneficial bacteria, pancreatic enzymes, amino acids and medicinal herbs in a convenient powder form. Designed to help heal the entire gastrointestinal system, this formula is beneficial for dogs suffering from Irritable Bowel Disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Colitis, GI disorders and chronic diarrhea.

Dosage: Mix with food in these amounts: Toy breeds - 1/3 teaspoon Up to 30 pounds - 1/2 teaspoon 30 to 60 pounds - 1 teaspoon 60 to 90 pounds - 2 teaspoons Over 90 pounds - 2 to 3 teaspoons

Ingredients: One tablespoon contains:
L-Glutamine (500 mg), Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100 Million CFU (100 mg), Lactobacillus Bulgaricus 100 Million CFU (75 mg), Streptococcus Themophilus 75 Million CFU (75 mg), Ginger Root (10 mg), N-Acetyl-Glucosamine (50 mg), L-Glycine (32 mg), Papain (50 mg), Pepsin (100 mg), Pancreatin 4x (100 mg), Pancrelipase (50 mg), Ox Bile Extract (60 mg), Bromelain (40 mg), Amylase (30 mg), Trypsin (25 mg) and Betaine (30 mg).

Other Ingredients: Chicken Liver Powder, and Whey.

Information: Although Bertes Digestion Blend contains digestive enzymes, it can be used in conjunction with Berte's Zyme for severe conditions, such as EPI (pancreatic insufficiency) or acute cases of IBD or colitis.

Cassidy's Mom 01-10-2013 08:42 PM

A fecal may or may not tell you anything. Keefer had had pretty much every kind of fecal test available, all negative. It wasn't until I heard about the giardia antigen test here on the board, and took him back to the vet and requested that they do the test, that we finally got a positive.

For SIBO the standard treatment includes at least 4 weeks of antibiotics, so I would definitely ask your vet about that. Most people seem to use Tylan but my vet doesn't stock it, so we used Tetracyline instead. Tylan apparently tastes terrible, so if he's not a good eater anyway you might want to administer it in capsules because some dogs will refuse food with Tylan on it. Talk to your vet about dosage.


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