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Old 12-19-2012, 02:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Water and Vinegar Ear Cleaner and Pseudomonas

A culture of Jerry's ear has shown that he has Pseudomonas aeruginosa in his ear, which is very resistant to antibiotics. He has been through 4-5 different homes and every vet he saw put him on antibiotics and ear drops, but the infection never cleared up and was never cultured (I have all his old vet records.) His vet wants to get very aggressive with the infection and wants me to clean it every day, put Baytril Otic solution in his ear, plus Benadryl to keep the ear open and Tramadol to help with the pain during cleaning.

I did some research and found that the acetic acid in vinegar can be effective against Pseudomonas aeruginosa, so I've been cleaning his ear with a solution of water and vinegar. I've ordered some DermaPet Malacetic ear cleaner, but I may stick with the water and vinegar if it seems to be helping.

My big concern right now is too much moisture being left from the cleanings. Jerry's ear canal is very tight and narrow - the vet isn't sure if it's from repeated infections or if he was born that way. I'd like to just pour the water and vinegar in there and rub the ear and then clean it out, but I'm concerned that the excess cleaner won't come back out. Right now I'm soaking a cotton ball and putting it in the ear, massaging the base of the ear, then removing it and using several dry cotton balls to clean as much gunk out as possible.

Three weeks ago Jerry was sedated and the vet cleaned out his ear, he said he found several pockets of pus and blood. He got the culture results and then saw that the ear still looked terrible two weeks later, so we started on the Baytril.

I'm worried that putting too much cleaner in his ear might make things worse. He shakes his head, but not much comes out, which may be due to his narrow ear canal.

My question is, should I add something to help dry it out, like alcohol or hydrogen peroxide, or do you think it's OK to keep doing what I'm doing? I know the vet told me to keep the outer part of his ear moisturized with aloe, so I don't want to make things worse by trying to dry it out.

Any suggestions appreciated! And I'd love to know if anyone has dealt with this bacteria in their dog's ear and beat it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't know anything to suggest, I have always just used the vinegar and water mixture myself as suggested by and elderly retired vet. Hope that your boy's ears clear up soon.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There are a few antibiotics that will help with pseudomonas. Kya had problems with that when she was younger. She was on an antibiotic (outrageously expensive) and a special homemade ear drop concoction my vet made. After several months of treatment it cleared and we have never had an issue again. I wish you good luck! That is some nasty stuff!
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I tried a # of things on my dogs goopy, bleeding crusty ears last yr. Nothing worked

Used raw organic cold pressed coconut oil - presto

The oil will kill bacteria, mites, yeast and emulsify the crud to bring up to the surface.

When conventional meds become resistant, you can turn to natural - try local health food store, see if they have a pre-mix - things like goldenseal are most helpful

I think there are homeopathic ear drops too - I think Heel has them
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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We used coconut oil on a dog here, and while it seemed better for a day or two, the infection came right back again.

I would NOT put alcohol in the mixture. It's got open wounds inside the ear canal. That's going to sting even worse than the vinegar does.

Either use what your vet recommended - or try Vetericyn.
Ask your vet about switching to Vetericyn. Please do not make up your own solutions. We had a Chessie lab mix that ultimately needed a TECA to get rid of the infection in his ear.

See article below--

Oral therapy is generally combined with some kind of topical treatment of the ear. Fortunately there are several concoctions that should be useful though some your vet must mix him/herself.

Silvadene/silver sulfadiazine
This product is manufactured as a wound creme and is especially helpful in hastening the healing of damaged external tissues. It also has activity against several bacteria including Pseudomonas. The creme can be prepared in water for an easier ear administration. This is an especially helpful product if the Pseudomonas is resistant to topical antibiotics.

**my personal experience is this has healed up many skin infections here, and may be worth a shot, but only under your vet's guidance! It has pain killer in it.

Tris-EDTA

EDTA is a binder of metals which are important to the bacterial cell wall. Tris is used to buffer the EDTA to a pH that is not irritating to the ear and to maximize the anti-bacterial effect. Using Tris-EDTA gives extra power to the topical antibiotics used concurrently.

Injectable Medications

It would be unusual for a Pseudomonas species to be resistant to absolutely everything. While there may not be an oral treatment available, sometimes an owner may be taught to give injectable treatments. These are often expensive, however. These same medications can also be mixed up for topical use; many are already available as commercially prepared solutions.

Chronic ear infections, as mentioned, typically have an underlying cause (usually allergy). It is important to address this problem in addition to the infection itself so as to minimize on-going ear inflammation.
Ear Infections

Vetericyn Ear Rinse|Vetericyn Ear Rinse by Doctors Foster and Smith

Vetericyn cleared up this Basset hounds ear quite nicely.

In his case, all the coconut oil did was make a big mess and didn't cure the infection.

About Vetericyn (from website above) This product, in solution, kills 99.999% of bacteria, viruses, and fungi including E.coli, Staph (MRSA), Strep, Moraxella bovis, Pasteurella, Actinomyces and Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Last edited by msvette2u; 12-19-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I am not a vet or doctor, and not responsible for anything that happens if you act on what I say below. I'm simply sharing what I have done and read to give you something to discuss with your vet!!

Baytril contains enrofloxacin as the active antibiotic ingredient. I see research information on meds showing that some psuedomonas is not as susceptible to enrofloxacin as needed to make it an effective treatment.

Tobramycin is an ear antibiotic given to humans. It is discussed online as being effective against pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Liesl had a mild ear infection--no frank pus, but lots of scratching and shaking her head. I used some left-over Tobramycin ear drops I had from an ear infection several months ago on her ear, and she responded immediately and the infection went away.

Maybe you should discuss with your vet having him move away from his "go to" antibiotic and consider something more effective for your dog. At least call another vet and find out what they use, then research it to see if it might be more effective. Good luck.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Gatorbytes, I did try coconut oil for a couple of weeks and I think it helped his right ear, but the left one is still infected. The vet says the right ear looks great and doesn't need any treatment.

msvette2u, thanks for the suggestion. My vet didn't recommend an ear wash, just told me to clean it every day before applying the enrofloxacin ointment, so I did some research to find an ear wash that might be better than what I already had. The Malacetic cleaner arrived a couple of hours ago - it has boric acid, acetic acid, glycerin, polysorbate, and triethanolamine in it. I think I'll start it tonight but talk to the vet about Vetericyn.

As for allergies, I don't know. He's on a grain-free food with lamb and he eats boiled chicken mixed in with the kibble. I tried raw, He was terribly itchy for the first couple of months but I've seen a huge improvement in that lately. Of course, that could be an environmental thing, since it's winter now. What do you do if a dog has environmental allergies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billsharp View Post
I am not a vet or doctor, and not responsible for anything that happens if you act on what I say below. I'm simply sharing what I have done and read to give you something to discuss with your vet!!

Baytril contains enrofloxacin as the active antibiotic ingredient. I see research information on meds showing that some psuedomonas is not as susceptible to enrofloxacin as needed to make it an effective treatment.

Tobramycin is an ear antibiotic given to humans. It is discussed online as being effective against pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Liesl had a mild ear infection--no frank pus, but lots of scratching and shaking her head. I used some left-over Tobramycin ear drops I had from an ear infection several months ago on her ear, and she responded immediately and the infection went away.

Maybe you should discuss with your vet having him move away from his "go to" antibiotic and consider something more effective for your dog. At least call another vet and find out what they use, then research it to see if it might be more effective. Good luck.
The lab results have a list of antibiotics and all of them say "Resistant" to pseudomonas, with only enrofloxacin and another antibiotic (amikacin) listed as "Intermediate". There are no antibiotics listed as "Susceptible". From what the vet has said, my discussion with my RN and lab co-workers, and my respiratory therapist dad, there aren't a lot of antibiotic options for this particular bacteria. I don't see Tobramycin on the list, though, so if it hasn't shown improvement when we go back for a check up I'll bring that up with the vet. I like that the Baytril doesn't seem to cause any kidney or liver damag, unlike some high powered antibiotics.

This is so frustrating. After five months of working on his ear, it's still just as bad. There's never been a day when his ear hasn't hurt. When he first came home to us, his ear was very red and he would cry if you got anywhere near it. Now it looks better and he will let me clean it without crying sometimes, but it's still terribly dirty and infected.

This is the day we brought him home. You can see just from the pic how red and infected his ear looks (his left ear is the bad one, but the right one was also infected and has cleared up now.)



This is from the day he had his ear flushed and cultured. You can see that it looks healthier and is white instead of red. He seems to have more hair in the ear now, too. I guess there has been improvement, but not what I'd like to see.

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Old 12-19-2012, 06:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Please be careful with that cleaner. It's good for healthy ears but not for ears with open sores.

I'd skip that, run to a feed store and get some Vetericyn. Because of how gentle it is, it won't sting like the cleaner you have with acetic acid in it.

We've dealt with some pretty severe infections and I've not seen anything clear them like this Vetericyn.

You'll know in 2-3 days if it's going to work.

And if not, you may end up needing the TECA. Apparently the infection can spread to the bone behind the ear and be very nasty and hard to get rid of.

My suggestions would be, 1) vetericyn, 2) silvadene (made for BURNS - this would not hurt and quite possibly will heal as it's indicated for the infection in your dog's ear) and if those failed, 3) Triz EDTA.

I've used 2 of the above and had great success.

You're going to be pouring vinegar into an open sore, with the one you're currently using. If vinegar has not cleared it yet, your own remedy, chances are this will fail, too, and be very painful when you do use it

Last edited by msvette2u; 12-19-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
Please be careful with that cleaner. It's good for healthy ears but not for ears with open sores.

I'd skip that, run to a feed store and get some Vetericyn. Because of how gentle it is, it won't sting like the cleaner you have with acetic acid in it.

We've dealt with some pretty severe infections and I've not seen anything clear them like this Vetericyn.

You'll know in 2-3 days if it's going to work.

And if not, you may end up needing the TECA. Apparently the infection can spread to the bone behind the ear and be very nasty and hard to get rid of.

My suggestions would be, 1) vetericyn, 2) silvadene (made for BURNS - this would not hurt and quite possibly will heal as it's indicated for the infection in your dog's ear) and if those failed, 3) Triz EDTA.

I've used 2 of the above and had great success.

You're going to be pouring vinegar into an open sore, with the one you're currently using. If vinegar has not cleared it yet, your own remedy, chances are this will fail, too, and be very painful when you do use it
you could ask your vet for some lidocaine WITHOUT EPI, and squirt around the sore area, wait about two minutes and then clean. pain free.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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But you're adding even more stuff into the mix...the three things I mentioned are virtually pain free due to their similarity, pH-wise, to the body.

They are painfree to use, so why dump vinegar in, if you need lidocaine to mask the pain?

I know the Basset had pus and blood in his ears, and I could see open sores. The wash the vet gave the shelter to use made him cry and try to bite us.
The Vetericyn didn't make him cry at all, he quit trying to attack us after he figure out it didn't burn.
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