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Old 12-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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As for not gaining weight, just wanted to say that my last GSD was the same weight from 8 months to two years (give or take only 1-2 lbs) so I don't think it's odd she's not continuing to gain, especially for a female already over 50lbs at 7 months.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I hear you Wild Wolf.

I'll do some investigating on the frozen/freeze dried raw. That might be more doable.

Her breeder gave us info to read saying she believes in vaccinating, but not over-vaccinating, as in, do titer testing before revaccinating as an adult, but felt puppy shots were ok. I know it's a hot topic, so I guess we have to do what feels right to us.

I'm going to leave her food until I get back the test results. The good news is, I've got about 1/4 of a large bag left of Acana, so if I need to change I've got enough to do it gradually and not have to waste any.

I've got the article you linked open, but haven't got through it all yet. I actually wasn't going to do the KC vaccine, but I had to for her daycare, so I did it.
You are definitely feeding a good kibble, so no worries there.

Nature's variety does a great frozen raw diet that comes in patties - minimal handling needed. "Instinct Raw"

Yes, do what works best for you.

Understandable about the KC vaccines - day care won't take dogs that don't have it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Do you guys think the calcium/phosphorus ratio's are ok for a puppy in the Nature's Variety and Honest Kitchen?
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Was the d-zyme from Global/Ryan's or Pet Value or Walmart - I know I've seen it - thinking Global.

If so, Global franchise's work independently and stock foods based on customer requests, what they do not carry they willl order.

I used to date a guy who owned a pet value and their franchise agreements had to follow a certain protocol - this was over 10yrs ago(eek!) and manufactured their own food "Performatrin" and HAD to stock what Pet Value HO told them to. Pet Value has since revamped it's image and is now jumped on the holistic food (still kibble) bandwagon in an effort to stay competative. Of 7 or so PV's In my area I only knew ONE that carried RAW.

Back to Global - they carry a min # of brands and only based on the company that will supply the freezer. Google your area for independent pet food stores - they will carry Honest Kitchen - one in oakville that does - not sure about Global.

Raw brands (All prepackaged in diff. weights, chubs, blocks, ground w/bone or w.o bone, some have veg/fruit mix on own, some mixed in - note: Keep it simple) - Big Country Raw, Congo, Healty Paws, Red Dog Blue Cat (this one has organic and hormone/abx. free) expensive...Keoni is a new company that developed from a chicken wholesaler/slaughter from requests to grind chicken and bones and are competative

Can do honest kitchen here and there, some raw here and there, raw mix w/HK and to reduce costs - plain old home-made RAW when have more time or co-ordinate this w/what you are feeding the family at the time - Chicken tonight? Dog gets chicken, add some green leafy veg for added health benefits and antiox. (nominal amount).

The D-zyme (went into the thread) is fairly basic pet food store d-zyme and is only plant based and doesn't provide other stuff required for repair - this is more a d-zyme for help w/digestion - sounds like your pups gut needs repair...Plus you haven't given it enough time (4-5days?)...there is no instant cure in conventional, so you cannot expect that in natural.

The B-naturals looks much better, as well there is a probiotic/d-zyme blend from Omega Alpha - this brand is available at Healthy Planet (cheapest) and various Human health food stores that I know of in my area.

Some vax. like bortadella (which is the same family as whooping cough in humans), lepto etc. are from bacteria are shed in the feces and urine and is thought may be causing the spread. So if you have children that play in the yard they could in fact be exposed to and I would think a family member on immunosupressants would be just as likely to become exposed to anything the dog could trek in and eliminate as well as all the recalls on salmonella tainted processed food (incl. molds from moisture in bag).

So, I don't think that RAW should be any more of a concern - spray bottle with touch of bleach and 50/50 water and vinegar will clean up bacteria just fine. A quick wipe with a damp paper towel (no bleach of course) of pooches chin after eating if concerned.

Part of the problem of kibble is how long it takes to break down - Fermentation do to the carbs - carbs/sugars feed bacteria - real raw meat provides an acidic enviro. even veg alkalizes - pathogens do not survive in acidic enviroments.

Omega Alpha (although this has brewers yeast and can aggrevate yeasty conditions, but on the other hand yeast is high in b-vit. which are essential in gastro health, especially B3) or B-Naturals or Carmans probiotic Sunday Sundae

Omega Alpha Pharmaceuticals - Probiotic 8 Plus
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Do you guys think the calcium/phosphorus ratio's are ok for a puppy in the Nature's Variety and Honest Kitchen?
I don't understand the whole cal./phos. chemist analogies, this is an issue with altered food and synthetic vitamins, the more food is tampered with, the more "science" has to alter it fit -

the perfect balance comes in the right ratio of meat to bone - I don't know a RAW food company that has a "puppy" formula - it is based on the size, weight and activity of the dog...there is a heck of a lot more to consider, amino acids, enzymatic function (not just d-zymes), vit c (healthy dogs manufature on own), vit. d and so on. These are all added to kibble (except 'C')...synthetically, these ingredients have things such as trace cyanide, coal tar and so forth and are not bioavailable AND produce toxic waste (chemies) that stress the liver.

Keep it simple
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm afraid with Raw and a young dog that I'll screw up the vitamins and minerals. Yes, Ageizm, I am AFRAID. LOL Add it to the list! LOL

I was using the Naturvet enjymes, but it's plant based which I read isn't as good. But also, I was reading and it said it can give them mouth sores? **MORE STRESS**

First I'm doing the tests, before I go crazy and start changing everything again. LOL

The Honest Kitchen and Nature's Variety raw diets don't look like the cal/phosphorus levels are balanced? Is this safe for a puppy, I was assuming not.

I feel like my head is going to explode with information overload. LOL
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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"I should note, pretty much all of these things I've discussed with my vet over the phone and/or brought her in and she wasn't worried about them"

Your vet wasn't worried about chronic yellow foamy liquid stool ? That's malabsorption. Does not matter one iota what the dog eats if it can't absorb the nutrients.

Orijen is just coming out with a freeze dried product ! looks really good . Orijen

friend Lori was an owner of a Pet Valu (Morningside) and "I used to date a guy who owned a pet value and their franchise agreements had to follow a certain protocol - this was over 10yrs ago(eek!) and manufactured their own food "Performatrin" and HAD to stock what Pet Value HO told them to" is correct . She now owns HeronView Raw N' Natural Heronview Raw and Natural Pet Food

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Old 12-18-2012, 08:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Carmen, I used to feed Orijin and then Acana - you like the freeze dried better than their original kibble I'm taking it? Curious as to your thoughts.....
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:46 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshep View Post
I'm afraid with Raw and a young dog that I'll screw up the vitamins and minerals. Yes, Ageizm, I am AFRAID. LOL Add it to the list! LOL
Afraid. Check!
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Your vet wasn't worried about chronic yellow foamy liquid stool ? That's malabsorption. Does not matter one iota what the dog eats if it can't absorb the nutrients.

Carmen
That only happened once when she was under the weather that one day.

What's chronic is the loose poop, sometimes it's better and I think we're sorting her out, then her tummy goes off again.

anyway, she's booked for tomorrow! PCR fecal, and bloodwork and we'll go from there. I will keep you posted.

Good to know about the Orijen RAW, I'll take a look at it when it comes out.

FYI, I'm not sure if withholding her lunch yesterday helped or what, but when I got her home, her poop was basically normal last night and late in the evening and again this morning.

So I fed her a little bit bigger breakfast than usual, I'm going to skip her lunch again today, feed her a little bit bigger dinner and maybe a 1/2 cup before bed (so she doesn't get that upset tummy in the morning from being hungry) and see if that helps. It might be my feeding routine that's doing it.

But at least I can hopefully cross some things off the list after the tests tomorrow. Something's causing the problems and I'm going to figure out what.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for the help, sincerely.

Try not to be too hard on me, I'm doing my best with this dog and I love her very much and I am concerned. I don't know all the things you do, yet. In the meantime she's happy and sassy and otherwise doing well.
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