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-   -   Advice seriously needed please,spaying/mange (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/195992-advice-seriously-needed-please-spaying-mange.html)

starburst 12-09-2012 10:10 AM

Advice seriously needed please,spaying/mange
 
Lola is now 4.5 months old, has demodectic mange and is on her second week of treatment for it (advantix)

Although no new bald spots have appeared she is still scratching like crazy ,especially at night.

My vet recommended she be treated with Advantix for 3 months.

I was planning of getting her spayed in another month and a half or so but is this a bad idea since her immune system is compromised ?

If I should wait, how long would you recommend ?

Shade 12-09-2012 10:27 AM

Yes I would wait until she's fully healthy, you want them at peak form before any surgery :)

Hopefully she'll be better quickly then you can talk to your vet regarding a spay. I've ways done females at 6 months with no issues, but if you need a extra couple weeks/months it shouldn't make a big difference though you may have to deal with one heat.

What did the vet recommend on how long to wait to spay because of the mange?

BowWowMeow 12-09-2012 10:35 AM

Did she have localized mange? If so, that is normally left untreated (or you can treat topically with NEEM and immune boosting supplements) and the immune system will take care of it on its own. It's actually quite common in dogs under the age of 2. Rafi had it twice when he was between 1 and 2.

I agree to wait until she is in perfect health before spaying.

msvette2u 12-09-2012 10:46 AM

The problem with mange is it's triggered by stress, including a heat in a dog.
So yes, if you can get her clear in a month- month and a half, do spay.

What we do here, though, is give Ivermectin daily until it's cleared and then two skin scrapes past when it's cleared up.

Ask your vet about Ivermectin. It's 1% for cattle but used off label in dogs.
I've not personally heard about advantix for demodectic mange?

Demodectic Mange

Are you sure it's demodex and not sarcoptic?

GatorBytes 12-09-2012 12:10 PM

Was she actually diagnosed w/mange or speculated - you said no hair loss, was this found on a skin scrape or just observation on vets part?

May be heading into hairloss stage.

She's 4.5 months, I am guessing she had a recent rabies shot? was this with other vaccines at the time or within a couple weeks to a month.
Note: THIS is NOT an anti-vaccine blurb, simply to explain how/why mange may have come to fruition.

First, her immune system hasn't fully developed - it is estimated approx. 6 months. When a vaccine is given, it supresses the immune system defences that deal with other pathogens as it works to deal w/invading vaccine virus or bacteria, a weak or underdeveloped I.S. may not be able to manage, so demodex mange - which is already present and normal under most circumstances proliferate because of immuno suppression.

The immune system once it has dealt w/rabies and/or other, may restore (with good nutrition) on it's own and fix the problem.

A little immune support would help too. Vit C if you want to keep it simple, an anti itch bath with a neem shampoo (formulated for dogs) as mentioned by Ruth.

I would wait to spay too...should never have surgery within months of a vaccine or pesticide treatment to be on the safe side and once the immune system is in top form - the adrenal glands are responible for sex hormones and are part of the endocrine (immune) system, as well the pancreas all work in tandom, so it is important to make sure you are comfortable with surgery and there are NO issues concurrent at time of spay - meds, prevention, vaccines, itchy skin, diarrhea.

here is a link from a company I have used products and was recommended by my Vet...it is animal specific and can dose easily by weight (instead of human product) in her food
Omega Alpha Pharmaceuticals - HealthyPet

mebully21 12-09-2012 12:32 PM

goodwinol shampoo has natural neem oil in it, the neem oil kills the mange mites.. its safe to use to bathe her in and will help kill the demodex mange. i am not sure of advantix killing off the mange mites,i have not heard of that. normally vets do either ivermection shots or orally...

ChancetheGSD 12-09-2012 05:19 PM

Are you sure it's not sarcoptic mange? Demodex doesn't itch.

Gretchen had demodex starting in late September and by the end of October she was completely healed and had most her fur grown back. I fed a good diet with lots of raw foods and supplemented with Carmen's Sh-Emp oil, Feed Sentials and Sunday Sundae. I also supplemented MSM powder and vitamin C to help take care of it too. The first week I DID do a full dip (Which was the most awful thing I've ever done and I refuse to ever do it again in a full bath) then I just rubbed some of the Mitaban on her bald spots the next "dip" which I hated to do too. She still healed, good nutrition and good supplements gave her the immune boost to fight it off. I was told she'd need 6-8 dip treatments (2 weeks apart from each other) by vet #1 to completely get rid of it too. (I ended up finding a different vet who didn't agree with the chemical dip treatments for localized demodex. He says she looks great now and healed up really quickly and well on her own. :))

Now, if the dog has SARCOPTIC mange then that's a whole different ball game. That will require you to treat all animals in the house for it, clean the house as well as possible, continuously wash all bedding, ect because it can spread to other animals and yourself.

If it IS demodex for sure then does she have localized or generalized mange? Localized will just be a couple bald spots here and there, localized is more than like 3-4 bald spots and will spread to larger patches all over the dogs body if not treated.

Regardless of what it is, I wouldn't spay until she's completely healed. She's still REALLY young anyways.

starburst 12-10-2012 09:28 AM

a huge thank you for all your advice !

I will be sure to hold off on the spaying until she is well enough.

to answer your questions:
the vet did a skin scraping and confirmed it is demodex and it is localized.

She has one bald spot right next to her eye and another on her front leg ( where the vet did the test)

When she was diagnosed, she was actually at the vets for her second round of vaccines which the vet did despite the mange... was that a bad idea ?


Also, as one of you mentioned, I have also heard that demodex doesn't itch but I swear she is scratching herself all over all night and day.

As far as what the vet gave me for her mange... I checked again and it's Advantage multi 55.
I administered her second dose yesterday morning and am supposed to go back and buy more in 2 weeks and keep up the treatment for 3 months.
Does that sound right to you guys ?

carmspack 12-10-2012 09:39 AM

Even 2 months later this seems a very young age to spay. You are stressing the immune further because the dog is still in a growing state . There is some question to the wisdom of an early spay because as said by respected vet Dr Zink " Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP, states that females who are spayed early are more likely to develop vascular or bone cancers, and that there is evidence that they may develop endocrine disorders later in life. Males who are neutered early may have more incidence of bone cancer. In the case of both genders, Dr. Zink also reports a higher incidence of hip dysplasia in dogs who are neutered prior to sexual maturity"

Then your dog has demo so is experiencing some immune depression which you should address through nutrition.

Externally , I would use DEFENDEX VETiONX Defendex - Fleas, Mange and Scabies Symptom Relief Treatment Shampoo much much safer than Advantix .

The vet should not have vaccinated a dog with demodex .

carmspack 12-10-2012 10:25 AM

borrowed this from "please take a look" thread , pg 7 , Julie 87 , "Yes, poor dog. She is my first personal dog and I will never spay again...I don't get how removing body parts suppose to make them healthier..they say it prevents certain cancers but then again it increases chancer for other diseases...why do it at all... I will deal with her heat cycles and behavior issues but I will never let them spay another dog of mine... but thats already another topic" Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...s/viewpost.gif
3 months seems very early for rabies ,
the spay , at a prime growth period , was an assault on her body , let her recover , give her what she needs to do so.

Yes, poor dog. She is my first personal dog and I will never spay again...I don't get how removing body parts suppose to make them healthier..they say it prevents certain cancers but then again it increases chancer for other diseases...why do it at all... I will deal with her heat cycles and behavior issues but I will never let them spay another dog of mine... but thats already another topic.


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