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Old 12-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Spaying will remove the chance of pyo (life threatening infection of the uterus), breast cancer and other issues.

When you also consider that stress of repeated heat cycles makes demodex flare up, and the added benefit of less mess in the house, no chance of male dogs hanging around your house every 6mos., and no chance this dog will reproduce, you find spaying is the best solution for your average (typical) pet owner.

As to vaccinating while a dog has demodex (even localized), which is worse? A spot or two of hair loss or dying of parvo or distemper?? I know which I'd choose.

Yes a dog's immune system takes a hit. That's how the body develops immunity.
But it recovers. That's the thing to keep in mind.

The long term goal is to have a dog that is immune to parvo and distemper.

I see advantage has an "ectin" in it, so maybe this is a newer way to treat demodex.
As others mentioned, you don't really have to treat the localized version of it, but advantage seems like a middle of the road treatment for it, while also repelling fleas and ticks.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Even 2 months later this seems a very young age to spay. You are stressing the immune further because the dog is still in a growing state . There is some question to the wisdom of an early spay because as said by respected vet Dr Zink " Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP, states that females who are spayed early are more likely to develop vascular or bone cancers, and that there is evidence that they may develop endocrine disorders later in life. Males who are neutered early may have more incidence of bone cancer. In the case of both genders, Dr. Zink also reports a higher incidence of hip dysplasia in dogs who are neutered prior to sexual maturity"

Then your dog has demo so is experiencing some immune depression which you should address through nutrition.

Externally , I would use DEFENDEX VETiONX Defendex - Fleas, Mange and Scabies Symptom Relief Treatment Shampoo much much safer than Advantix .

The vet should not have vaccinated a dog with demodex .
Thanks for posting Carmen. The recent research on spaying speaks volumes to delay. I encourage folks to wait as long as they can before spaying. I would, at the very least, wait until the pup turned two. I am convinced that early spaying offers no advantage and contributes to serious issues later in the dogs life.

So to the op, I would wait to spay your pup and if you are going to spay her, wait until she is at least two years old. That is based on years of experience and recent research.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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As to vaccinating while a dog has demodex (even localized), which is worse? A spot or two of hair loss or dying of parvo or distemper?? I know which I'd choose.

Yes a dog's immune system takes a hit. That's how the body develops immunity.
But it recovers. That's the thing to keep in mind.

The long term goal is to have a dog that is immune to parvo and distemper.
A dog having a flare up of demodex is not healthy and it states on vaccines that they should only be given to healthy dogs. The dog's immune system may recover if one vaccinates at this time, but it also may not.

I would never give a person medical advice. I am not a vet. Just something to consider.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I am convinced that early spaying offers no advantage and contributes to serious issues later in the dogs life.
That's really debatable, and for every study you find that shows a possible "issue" later in a dog's life, there's 10 studies that say it's okay.

After 10yrs. of doing rescue and spaying/neutering some 150 + per year, we've noticed no ill effects, either short or long term, so that's our experience, including with our own pets.

As for vaccinating...the litter of 6 puppies we handraised a few months ago were just altered, and vaccinated 2 x by us (5 ways).
A few of them developed slight hair loss around the eyes (localized demo) by the time a large adoption event had arrived, but it reversed itself within a week or so.

A parvo outbreak was later reported at that same event (brought in by a private owner) and I was very glad we'd risked the slight demo for protection against that nasty disease.

Last edited by msvette2u; 12-10-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Five Vaccine Ingredients That Can Harm Your Dog

Disease micro-organisms are often cultured on animal tissue including embryonic chickens or cow fetuses. When a vaccine is manufactured, it is impossible to divide the wanted virus from the unwanted animal tissue, so it all gets ground up together and injected into your dog’s body.
If a dog eats animal flesh or an egg, it is digested (broken down) into simpler amino acids before entering the bloodstream. The digestive process in most cases changes protein molecules so they don’t trigger an immune reaction. This is not the case for vaccines, since they are injected undigested, directly into the bloodstream, where they the foreign protein matter circulates throughout the body.
When the body detects the presence of the foreign proteins, an immune response is triggered. Killer cells (white blood cells or phagocytes) are then sent out to consume the cells containing the foreign proteins and protein fragments. This process is nature’s way of protecting the body from being overwhelmed by invading organisms and eventually succumbing to them. The foreign protein fragments are not always destroyed by the body as it is busy cleaning up the multiple viruses that have just been injected, along with the serious chemical spill of aluminum, Thimerosal, formaldehyde and more. So the foreign protein matter gets absorbed into body cells. T-Cells, sensing they are there, but unable to reach them directly, attack the body cells that harbor them. This can lead to autoimmune disorders including cancer, allergies, arthritis and more.

“Our ongoing studies of dogs show that following routine vaccination, there is a significant level of antibodies dogs produce against their own tissues…Some of these antibodies have been shown to target the thyroid gland, the connective tissue such as that found in the valves of the heart, red blood cells, DNA etc.” Larry Glickman DVM, referring to the results of the Purdue Vaccine Studies.

No your vet should NOT have vaccinated - ESPECIALLY w/a diagnosis of demodex...not speculative - CONFIRMED. This is NOTED from the vaccine MANUFACTURERS that provide warnigs via an insert in the packaging advising Vets NOT to use at sign of illness....it is commonly known through med school that demodex is an immune system problem.

Just b/c someone comes on here to scare you about death if you don't vaccinate, who ignores what Merck, Phizer, and others state in their own vaccine lit. is not who I would want to take advice from. Especially when they promote vaccines, drugs (for minor issues), kibble, pesticides as the only way to go when raising a dog...when evidence keeps on showing that these elements contribute to disease...the trouble is dogs have an inherent ability to hide illness, so they go on living with this, never complaining so you will never know how crappy they feel...However once it shows, then they are in real trouble...prevention through common sense, education and being proactive in your dogs rearing is the only way....Not because someone said your dog will die if you don't listen to them.
Disease happens despite vaccines, your dog is more likely to catch a deadly disease going to the vet while the immune system in in a state of flux.

Boost the immune system with real whole foods, just like nature intended. Wolves, coyotes and foxes are not extinct - WHY? they don't go to the vet.

IMO, this is malpractice.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Demodectic Mange

The treatment of demodicosis only in part relies on medications; some basic steps can be taken with regard to pet care to maximize the chance of success. Physiological stress is an important factor determining the degree of severity of demodectic mange and the following steps should be taken to reduce stress:

Females should be spayed as soon as the disease is controlled. Coming into heat, hormone fluxes, and pregnancy are very stressful and will encourage the mites. Also, predisposition to demodicosis is hereditary and should not be passed on.

The dog should be fed a reputable brand of dog food so as to avoid any nutritionally related problems.

Keep the pet parasite-free. Worms are irritants that the pet need not deal with and fleas may exacerbate the itchiness and skin infection.

Keep up the pet's vaccinations.

The mites themselves cause suppression of the immune system so the pet needs every advantage to stay healthy.

Skin infections are usually present in these cases and antibiotics will likely be necessary. It is very important that cortisone type medications such as prednisone NOT be used in these cases as they will tip the immune balance in favor of the mite.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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A a rescuer, you would advocate early spaying and neutering. The most recent studies indicate that early spaying is not beneficial and leads to health issues later in life. I agree with the studies.
BTW, there are two forms of pymoria in females dogs - open and closed. Closed leads to serious trouble/death if not treated I.e. spaying. Open can be treated and the dog recover to live a normal healthy life.
Like most who push early spaying/neutering, bombarding the dog owner with horror stories about death and diseases if the dog isnt sterilized at a an early age is uncalled for. At least present both sides of the issue and let the owner decide for themselves.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Early spay neuter in this case would keep the demo suppressed, and would be indicated as soon as the demo has cleared.
By the time the dog has her first heat, she'd then be prone to getting the demo again due to the stress of the heat.
From the MarVista site -
Quote:
Females should be spayed as soon as the disease is controlled. Coming into heat, hormone fluxes, and pregnancy are very stressful and will encourage the mites. Also, predisposition to demodicosis is hereditary and should not be passed on.
So yes, we'd encourage any owner to spay before the onset of heat cycles.

Quote:
Like most who push early spaying/neutering, bombarding the dog owner with horror stories about death and diseases if the dog isnt sterilized at a an early age is uncalled for.
Well, neither are the horror stories about the dangers of vaccines (which prevent illnesses), then? There's death and disease whichever route you choose

Last edited by msvette2u; 12-10-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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A a rescuer, you would advocate early spaying and neutering. The most recent studies indicate that early spaying is not beneficial and leads to health issues later in life. I agree with the studies.
BTW, there are two forms of pymoria in females dogs - open and closed. Closed leads to serious trouble/death if not treated I.e. spaying. Open can be treated and the dog recover to live a normal healthy life.
Like most who push early spaying/neutering, bombarding the dog owner with horror stories about death and diseases if the dog isnt sterilized at a an early age is uncalled for. At least present both sides of the issue and let the owner decide for themselves.
Let me help with that

Up side/Down side:

On the positive side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common malignant tumors in female dogs
• nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• removes the very small risk (≤0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors

On the negative side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• causes urinary “spay incontinence” in 4-20% of female dogs
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
One thing is clear – much of the spay/neuter information that is available to the public is unbalanced and contains claims that are exaggerated or unsupported by evidence. Rather than helping to educate pet owners, much of it has contributed to common misunderstandings about the health risks and benefits associated of spay/neuter in dogs.
The traditional spay/neuter age of six months as well as the modern practice of pediatric spay/neuter appear to predispose dogs to health risks that could otherwise be avoided by waiting until the dog is physically mature, or perhaps in the case of many male dogs, foregoing it altogether unless medically necessary.
The balance of long-term health risks and benefits of spay/neuter will vary from one dog to the next. Breed, age, and gender are variables that must be taken into consideration in conjunction with non-medical factors for each individual dog. Across-the-board recommendations for all pet dogs do not appear to be supportable from findings in the veterinary medical literature.

Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs



AND Marvista is an animal clinic...they are biased re: profits
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:41 AM   #20 (permalink)
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AND Marvista is an animal clinic...they are biased re: profits
And "Dog Naturally" isn't?
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