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Old 12-01-2012, 12:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default New video of Ziva's rear.

Can any breeder please tell me what you think? I'm told this is a puppy stage, but I am not sure I believe it. I have an appt. with the ortho vet, but should I waste my money or take her back? Also, could this be a vitamin deficiency because I am feeding raw? I give minerals, but am wondering if she needs vitamins too?
Ziva - YouTube
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To me she looks very overweight, which can definitely take its toll on young joints. As for movement I think her gait is very puppyish, but she is definitely very cowhocked. Hopefully someone can chime in on experience as to whether it is something that puppies can outgrow.

For the raw diet, a well put together raw diet shouldn't require additional supplementation, and in fact you can over supplement and cause problems with development. The most important and easiest to overuse IMO is calcium.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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no breeder here, but I agree she is very cowhocked, not unusual for a puppy, and puppies are quite clumsy, not uniform when young.

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I have an appt. with the ortho vet, but should I waste my money or take her back?
Not sure I am reading this right, but 'waste my money'? Why wouldn't you want to 'waste your money' to get a definitive diagnosis?? I guess I just can't see taking back a puppy because x said this, y said this, and z, you have no definitive diagnosis??

I may be wrong, but didn't your husband bring home a puppy not long ago? Uschi? I don't see her in your sig line, just wondering if you still have her as well.

And yes, I would waste my money and take her to an ortho surgeon to find out once and for all, IF she has an issue or if it's just puppy clumsiness.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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not a breeder, but there doesn't seem to be any pain involved, i would try and feed a bit less and wait a bit, might just be a little "puppy wobble". i am also not an expert.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Looks very cow-hocked to me, so that is the gait and conformation to be expected. WGSL come to mind, I can think of very few I've seen that haven't appeared cow-hocked and weak in the rear end to me. Of course, she is a puppy, so an awkward gait is to be expected.

Could it cause problems in the future? Of course, any poor conformation in the joints can. However, Zeke is cow-hocked, is kept at a good weight, fed a raw diet, and at 6 years of age has yet to display any problems.

If you think seeing an orthopedic vet now to make sure there aren't problems is a waste of money, then maybe you SHOULD take her back. Because what happens when there is a problem 5 years down the line and she needs to see an "expensive" vet?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Update on Ziva. Took her to the ortho vet, he said she is severely cow hocked and she also has a strange bend in one of her back legs that make it worse, and it "may" cause problems later on. She is not overly over weight, she doesn't have much muscle tone since when she does any trotting or running she falls down and gives up, we are working on that. I am giving her a good barf diet, and am supplementing with Nuvet vitamins. I talked with the breeder and we agreed that what I already paid for her is fine and I will keep the dog and not pay anymore. I love Ziva, so I am willing to deal with this. And Jakoda, yes, I did have another puppy. Harley hated her and I was constantly breaking up vicious fights between them. Always in the house, and I was dumb enough to get in the middle because I was afraid she would get hurt. I placed her in a very good home. Ziva and Harley get along very well, although not allowed to run or play outside together, they are allowed to be together in the house with no problems. Thanks for all of your replies!
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This is my opinion on her, re: diet.
I know raw is supposed to be better. That's actually debatable, although raw feeders won't say that.
Some dogs are fine on raw. Others, not so much.
The problem is, puppies need everything in a balance, and giving her minerals and supplement is not the way to achieve that balance.
Personally I think you need to switch her to a well-balanced, quality kibble that will meet the needs of a rapidly growing puppy.
We actually feed Kirkland Signature and our dogs are fine on it, but you could consider Solid Gold Wolf king, Blue Buffalo (large breed puppy, possibly), or California Naturals, to suggest a few.

Also trim her weight.
You can adjust her diet so she's not overweight - I see a sag in her belly that should not be there.
Especially a dog with joint issues, has got to be kept lean. Lean (and active) is better by far than pudgy, even slightly pudgy.
This will also be easier with a kibble diet.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I disagree completely about feeding kibble. There are many working line breeders on here who feed raw and who wean their puppies onto raw. Their dogs are in incredible physical condition.

Ziva needs muscle tone. Food alone cannot give her muscle tone. She needs physical therapy and preferably swimming or underwater treadmill therapy.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree with Ruth on the muscle tone building,,swimming is GREAT for building muscle tone, and if you can also find a good PT, they will be able to suggest exercises as well.

Alot of PT's now have a water treadmill. The water therapy may also help build up muscle and possibly help stabilize that 'bend' (or whatever it is) in her leg..

Another muscle tone builder I did with my aussie (and others),,hill walking, however, you want to walk diagonally (sp), not straight up and down..and start out slow to build up.


Good luck with her, glad Harley likes her
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