Hair Loss/Allergies? - Page 3

Minoli · 12-04-2012, 02:23 PM

It doesn't seem like Discouid Lupus. His nose is more dry on the top than anywhere else, and has full pigmentation everywhere except for the most dry area (grayish color).

He sometimes refuses to eat, like last night. His skin also seems more irritated from itching, instead of sores and blisters, so it doesn't sound like Pemphigus.

Minoli · 12-18-2012, 02:28 PM

Leo's nose has gotten better, as we've been using the Snout Soother 3 times a day for the past two weeks. We've also been using Vetericyn for this time period.

However, his hair loss is still very bad, if not worse in some areas.

Please see the attached pics. It's upsetting seeing him like this, and not knowing what the cause is. My girlfriend thinks it's a food allergy. I don't think it is, seeing as he has been eating chicken and beef for quite some time now (~9 months), and he has never looked this bad.

DHau · 12-18-2012, 03:04 PM

Regarding the ear tips, is the skin flaky? Has it always been that way or since you changed the dog's diet. Tosca would loose hair on the tips of her ears after being on a diet that consisted of fish. The diet was changed and no more problems with hair loss or flakey tips.

I highly recommend your taking your dog in and having her tested for allergies. If you don't, you will be going round and round trying figure it out. It's not worth the frustration to not do it. Your dog could be allergic to many things such as food, mold, grass, weeds and trees.

Minoli · 12-20-2012, 10:37 AM

His ears have been flaky before, but they weren't as raw as they are now. Right now they are more raw and red.

We've been only feeding chicken and beef for the past month or so, trying to find the cause. It has gotten worse over this time as well.

Is the allergy testing accurate? I remember hearing from others that it was pretty expensive and not very accurate.

My girlfriend wants to switch to Nature's Variety Instinct kibble in 3-4 weeks when his food runs out.

GatorBytes · 12-20-2012, 11:44 AM

I am thinking possible zinc deficiency or an imbalance of zinc/copper

Zinc ThePossibleCanine

The thing w/zinc is it is usually abundant in raw food especially baby calf's liver, however it is also easily deficient at times of illness, season changes, stress, pesticides/toxins, immune suppression from vaccination and so on.

Zinc is very importance for immune function but NOT a lot is needed, but some might be to get back in balance...it is also related to skin sores, hair loss and inabilty to heal....

look at the food you are giving in weights (oz.'s) and go to nutritional data.com and see if what you are feeding may not have the right ratio's.

Copper def. is rare and is found in meat, fish and liver
Zinc is also found in the same, as well as eggs, pumpkin seeds.

I think the link says zinc to copper 10:1 ratio
If you suppliment zinc - use a natural form or amino acid chelete form - low dose so you can regulate it (15mg.) then you cna do 30 - if you buy 50mg, may be too much.

I only suggest this as you are doing RAW, for anybody else, if on a kibble diet you have NO WAY of knowing how much is in pre-mix and sprayed on, blood work may help, but different batches of food can provide different values.

Supplimenting with a zinc/copper all in one may prove to help if you think the ratio's in RAW food is fine

msvette2u · 12-20-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoli

Leo's nose has gotten better, as we've been using the Snout Soother 3 times a day for the past two weeks. We've also been using Vetericyn for this time period.

However, his hair loss is still very bad, if not worse in some areas.

Please see the attached pics. It's upsetting seeing him like this, and not knowing what the cause is. My girlfriend thinks it's a food allergy. I don't think it is, seeing as he has been eating chicken and beef for quite some time now (~9 months), and he has never looked this bad.

Those places REALLY look like sarcoptic mange. Exact same locations.

Sarcoptic Mange
Read through this and look at the pattern of hair loss.

Is your dog back on revolution?
Did you do the ear pinna test?
Sarcoptic mange is intensely itchy, btw.

PROVEN EFFECTIVE -- Difference between demodectic vs sarcoptic mange - YouTube

msvette2u · 12-20-2012, 11:55 AM

sarcoticmites

A SIMPLE WAY TO PRESUME THE DIAGNOSIS OF SCABIES IN DOGS
In over 95% of dogs with Sarcoptic Mite infestation (Scabies) a simple test can suggest that these mites are present. It is called the Pedal-Pinna Reflex Test. Since almost all dogs with Scabies mites will have mites along the ear flap (called the Pinna) margins, as displayed in some of the photos below, the dog will reflexively use a back leg in a scratching motion if the Pinna is scratched gently by a person testing this reflex. Simply take the Pinna between your thumb and forefinger and vigorously scratch the surface of the underside of the Pinna with the forefinger. Dogs with no mites seldom work the back leg in a scratching motion. Dogs with sarcoptic mites almost always will demonstrate an involuntary scratching motion with the back leg while you are scratching the Pinna.

Also----And here’s another problem... sarcoptic mites are very elusive. Ordinarily, skin scrapings are utilized to pick up mites from the skin, a few drops of solution is applied to the scraping and the substance is examined under the microscope for the presence of mites. Cheyletiella are easy to find, Demodex are easy to find, ear mites are easy to find... scabies mites seldom are found. Take as many scrapings as you like, even go deep into the skin, and the odds are that you still will not find the scabies mites. This has led many an unwary veterinarian down the road to misdiagnosis. After all, if no mites are found on this itchy, inflamed pet with hair loss and skin sores, it must be an allergic dermatitis, right?

GatorBytes · 12-20-2012, 12:10 PM

The dog was on revolution, the problem has existed for 6 months, the revolution would have prevented and/or treated during this time.

It is not common for dogs to catch mange unless they are rolling around in shelters w/mangey dogs or in contact with said dogs at dog park.

Urban dogs are not that suseptible to mange.

I would look at nutritional defeciencies first and strengthening the immune system before dumping pesticide in the blood for mange that most likely is not present. This will exacerbate the immune system further and in fact may have been the cause (revolution)

There is also the possibility of aluminum in the tissues - MMF
Macrophagic myofasciitis lesions assess long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminium hydroxide in muscle

Chelating this - I think vit. C helps remove aluminum - aluminum can go to the brain and is transorted via lymph system

12-18-2012, 02:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
Minoli Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 108	Leo's nose has gotten better, as we've been using the Snout Soother 3 times a day for the past two weeks. We've also been using Vetericyn for this time period. However, his hair loss is still very bad, if not worse in some areas. Please see the attached pics. It's upsetting seeing him like this, and not knowing what the cause is. My girlfriend thinks it's a food allergy. I don't think it is, seeing as he has been eating chicken and beef for quite some time now (~9 months), and he has never looked this bad. Attached Thumbnails

12-18-2012, 03:04 PM	#23 (permalink)
DHau Knighted Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: GA Posts: 2,852	Regarding the ear tips, is the skin flaky? Has it always been that way or since you changed the dog's diet. Tosca would loose hair on the tips of her ears after being on a diet that consisted of fish. The diet was changed and no more problems with hair loss or flakey tips. I highly recommend your taking your dog in and having her tested for allergies. If you don't, you will be going round and round trying figure it out. It's not worth the frustration to not do it. Your dog could be allergic to many things such as food, mold, grass, weeds and trees. __________________ Please bear with my stupid questions. This old dog is learning new tricks. lol. Last edited by DHau; 12-18-2012 at 03:10 PM.

12-20-2012, 11:44 AM	#25 (permalink)
GatorBytes Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 2,136	I am thinking possible zinc deficiency or an imbalance of zinc/copper Zinc ThePossibleCanine The thing w/zinc is it is usually abundant in raw food especially baby calf's liver, however it is also easily deficient at times of illness, season changes, stress, pesticides/toxins, immune suppression from vaccination and so on. Zinc is very importance for immune function but NOT a lot is needed, but some might be to get back in balance...it is also related to skin sores, hair loss and inabilty to heal.... look at the food you are giving in weights (oz.'s) and go to nutritional data.com and see if what you are feeding may not have the right ratio's. Copper def. is rare and is found in meat, fish and liver Zinc is also found in the same, as well as eggs, pumpkin seeds. I think the link says zinc to copper 10:1 ratio If you suppliment zinc - use a natural form or amino acid chelete form - low dose so you can regulate it (15mg.) then you cna do 30 - if you buy 50mg, may be too much. I only suggest this as you are doing RAW, for anybody else, if on a kibble diet you have NO WAY of knowing how much is in pre-mix and sprayed on, blood work may help, but different batches of food can provide different values. Supplimenting with a zinc/copper all in one may prove to help if you think the ratio's in RAW food is fine __________________ He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown

12-20-2012, 12:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
GatorBytes Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 2,136	The dog was on revolution, the problem has existed for 6 months, the revolution would have prevented and/or treated during this time. It is not common for dogs to catch mange unless they are rolling around in shelters w/mangey dogs or in contact with said dogs at dog park. Urban dogs are not that suseptible to mange. I would look at nutritional defeciencies first and strengthening the immune system before dumping pesticide in the blood for mange that most likely is not present. This will exacerbate the immune system further and in fact may have been the cause (revolution) There is also the possibility of aluminum in the tissues - MMF Macrophagic myofasciitis lesions assess long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminium hydroxide in muscle Chelating this - I think vit. C helps remove aluminum - aluminum can go to the brain and is transorted via lymph system __________________ He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown

12-04-2012, 02:23 PM	#21 (permalink)
Minoli Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 108	It doesn't seem like Discouid Lupus. His nose is more dry on the top than anywhere else, and has full pigmentation everywhere except for the most dry area (grayish color). He sometimes refuses to eat, like last night. His skin also seems more irritated from itching, instead of sores and blisters, so it doesn't sound like Pemphigus.

12-20-2012, 10:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
Minoli Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 108	His ears have been flaky before, but they weren't as raw as they are now. Right now they are more raw and red. We've been only feeding chicken and beef for the past month or so, trying to find the cause. It has gotten worse over this time as well. Is the allergy testing accurate? I remember hearing from others that it was pretty expensive and not very accurate. My girlfriend wants to switch to Nature's Variety Instinct kibble in 3-4 weeks when his food runs out.

12-20-2012, 11:55 AM	#27 (permalink)
msvette2u Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful Pacific NW Posts: 11,005	sarcoticmites A SIMPLE WAY TO PRESUME THE DIAGNOSIS OF SCABIES IN DOGS In over 95% of dogs with Sarcoptic Mite infestation (Scabies) a simple test can suggest that these mites are present. It is called the Pedal-Pinna Reflex Test. Since almost all dogs with Scabies mites will have mites along the ear flap (called the Pinna) margins, as displayed in some of the photos below, the dog will reflexively use a back leg in a scratching motion if the Pinna is scratched gently by a person testing this reflex. Simply take the Pinna between your thumb and forefinger and vigorously scratch the surface of the underside of the Pinna with the forefinger. Dogs with no mites seldom work the back leg in a scratching motion. Dogs with sarcoptic mites almost always will demonstrate an involuntary scratching motion with the back leg while you are scratching the Pinna. Also----And here’s another problem... sarcoptic mites are very elusive. Ordinarily, skin scrapings are utilized to pick up mites from the skin, a few drops of solution is applied to the scraping and the substance is examined under the microscope for the presence of mites. Cheyletiella are easy to find, Demodex are easy to find, ear mites are easy to find... scabies mites seldom are found. Take as many scrapings as you like, even go deep into the skin, and the odds are that you still will not find the scabies mites. This has led many an unwary veterinarian down the road to misdiagnosis. After all, if no mites are found on this itchy, inflamed pet with hair loss and skin sores, it must be an allergic dermatitis, right?

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