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Old 11-05-2012, 06:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Some health questions re: ears, teeth, and whining after exercise

I have a few questions but considering they are all "health" related I decided to lump them together into one thread.

1. It appears that Kaiser has worn down his bottom two canines. I haven't checked the upper two, however the bottoms no longer come to a "point". Instead, they have a "flat" edge and you can see what I only know to describe as a "circle" within the center (looking down from the top of the tooth toward the gumline). He doesn't show any pain while chewing or otherwise, but I'm worried that I'm giving him too many things to chew on during the day. Right now I give him a random combination of a deer antler, bone (real), and/or a nylabone dental toy (its a dinosaur with little spikes on it for teeth cleaning...not that he needs the cleaning, but he LOVES the toy itself). He really isn't super interested in stuffed Kongs (he doesn't like frozen things, so anything I stuff is eaten fairly quickly) but I do also give him one of those plastic jugs with the knot in it and I put his breakfast in there for him to work on when I leave in the morning. I don't leave him unattended with bully sticks, but he does get one every 3 or 4 weeks. At any rate, should I be concerned? Anything I should do differently? I hate the thought of taking his antlers etc away from him, but he would go crazy without something to do during the day in his pen.

2. How often are you cleaning your dog's ears? I swear I'm cleaning Kaisers 1-2 times a week. He gets uncomfortable, scratches his ears, and whines because it hurts. He's had problems with yeast since a puppy, but we are on a new food now since the fire at the Acana plant. He's not AS itchy overall (its the Innova Prime beef/lamb forumula) so maybe this will help his ears too. I'm not even sure what he has going on lately is yeast or just "gunk". Either way, a cleaning usually helps for a few days.

3. What are your limits on exercise and what is "normal" behavior for a pup who has maybe overdone it a bit? I could never walk/jog/run enough to wear Kaiser out, so on the days that I have the time, I take him to the dog park. I think we spent 4 hours there Saturday and another 4 on Sunday. Now pleeeease don't think I'm forcing him to exercise. He takes breaks, lays down, or just generally turns down his activity level until he is ready to play again all on his own. We usually end up leaving when I start getting tired or hungry, or if he is doing more resting than playing. He LOVES being out and about (being near the mountains, albeit temporarily, we have done some 3-5 hour hikes which he has absolutely loved as well). When I get back home in a couple weeks, his exercise will be either running around our sorry excuse for a dog park (there are rarely any dogs there and all it is is a small fenced in plot of sand) or running on the beach (much easier now that its the off season). This is of course in addition to any regular walks. I'm sure many smaller bouts of exercise are better than a few large ones, but my weekends are the only time I really have to give to the dogs 100%, so I try to get them out doing things they enjoy as much as I can. During the week, our excercise is limited to an hour here or an hour there (before/after work).

Now the point of my concern was this morning Kaiser whined pretty much any time he moved. I didn't see him limping when I took him out to potty, but I'm sure he's sore from playing yesterday. He's never whined like this before, so of course I'm a little concerned. I'll check him again when I get home from work, but aside from rest (and assuming I dont need to take him to a vet), is there anything I can do for his discomfort? Can dogs take medicines akin to what us humans would take for sore joints/muscles?
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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He is VERY young to have worn down his teeth that far. My older dog's teeth are that way but he was 5 or 6 before they got down to the pulp and they never caused any discomfort but I don't know what a vet would say. I would remove the bone, particularly if it is the hard long bones because they will take out teeth in short order. Not sure about the antlers. The one I have is split and it is over a year old. Beau prefers to chew on things he can shred. My old female actually wore her premolars completely down to the gum line chewing on bone..

I have not cleaned a dogs ears since we had Toby. Toby had allergy problems which is why the icky ears. He died in 2007 from hemangiosarcoma.

Beau is 15 months and gets about 45 minutes of ball play, and 30 minutes walking a day plus most of the day outside and he stays active off and on. I have had him out all day running, walking or doing scent work for several hours but we don't "do" dog parks. He has never appeared to be sore. I have had dogs get sore before though.

I would give him a couple of days if there is no obvious injury and take him to the vet if it persists. I know you can give dogs a little buffered aspirin but NOT tylenol, not advil. Maybe you call the vet for the right dosage?
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'll see if i can get a picture of his teeth.

The bone is actually a very short marrow bone that Dakota ate the marrow out of years ago. Kaiser kind of inherited it and chews on it every once in a while. He seems to prefer the antler. I have purchased the split antlers but between Dakota and Kaiser they scoop out the marrow and promptly chew the rest down. This anter has lasted over 6 months now and is mostly chewed down due to Kaiser. It was, oh, maybe about 8 inches long to begin with (maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick, at the thickest, and down to 1/4 inch at the thinnest) and was "whole" except for a few grinded down edges where they cut it from the original antler.

I'm sorry about Toby I'm hoping we can figure something out for Kaiser's ears. I'm also trying to find a good ear solution (I'm sure some are better than others) so I'll definitely take recommendations!

How did your dogs that did get sore act? Kaiser seems to hide his discomfort as best he can, which is ironic considering he is a big baby sometimes. The whining gives it away though. The last time he was sore he actually limped but never whined once. That went away in a couple days. I'm going to let him rest all day today and tonight and re-evaluate along the way. If he's not better by tomorrow I'll find a vet I may call anyway for dosage information. I've found that some vets just don't like to give any information out over the phone. I DO understand that, but unfortunately I don't have $80 for a visit every week that Kaiser gets bumped or bruised
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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In the interim, if not seeing a vet until you get home...

1. Not sure about the teeth as you describe, I have heard that tennis balls will wear down teeth, but never about bones - although nylabone maybe. I would be concerned about leaving him alone w/deer antler...those things scare me with the stream lined taper and arch going down the throat and getting stuck.

2. What are you cleaning the ears with? I was cleaning G's this time last year every few days until I decided to try coconut oil - the oil emulsifies the debris deep down so it will break up and rise to be cleaned (from head shaking), and it kills yeasts and bacteria...and the only thing my dog will let me use.

3. May have overdone...you can liken it to weekend warrior. Try massaging down his spine and watch for muscle contractions as you go, that could be an indication he has thrown himself out of alignment...Chiro...Otherwise it could be related to his past mystery pain that hasn't healed properly. Or could be early sign of type joint dysplasia...Perhaps in future, give a good fast walk for warm up before any fun and games. You can try homepathic Arnica Montana or Rhus Tox....Willow bark is an herbal pain killer that asperin is derived from...Wobenzyme is a pancreatic enzyme taken away from food works as an anti-inflammatory. If you really feel he is in pain, call your vet and have them send a prescription to pharm of your choice for Tramadol

Hope he's fine when you get home
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBytes View Post
In the interim, if not seeing a vet until you get home...

1. Not sure about the teeth as you describe, I have heard that tennis balls will wear down teeth, but never about bones - although nylabone maybe. I would be concerned about leaving him alone w/deer antler...those things scare me with the stream lined taper and arch going down the throat and getting stuck.

2. What are you cleaning the ears with? I was cleaning G's this time last year every few days until I decided to try coconut oil - the oil emulsifies the debris deep down so it will break up and rise to be cleaned (from head shaking), and it kills yeasts and bacteria...and the only thing my dog will let me use.

3. May have overdone...you can liken it to weekend warrior. Try massaging down his spine and watch for muscle contractions as you go, that could be an indication he has thrown himself out of alignment...Chiro...Otherwise it could be related to his past mystery pain that hasn't healed properly. Or could be early sign of type joint dysplasia...Perhaps in future, give a good fast walk for warm up before any fun and games. You can try homepathic Arnica Montana or Rhus Tox....Willow bark is an herbal pain killer that asperin is derived from...Wobenzyme is a pancreatic enzyme taken away from food works as an anti-inflammatory. If you really feel he is in pain, call your vet and have them send a prescription to pharm of your choice for Tramadol

Hope he's fine when you get home
Kaiser only gets tennis balls at the dog park (I don't have any at home because he will try to "de-skin" them). I don't think he plays with them enough though to cause the wearing down that I'm seeing. I can see how they might over time though!

Hmm, good point regarding the shape of the bone. He's never been a gulper, but now you have definitely given me something to think about. I really need to leave him with "something" though or else he will spend 8 hours trying to break out of the pen.

I've tried 4 different solutions over the last 8 months. One was the rest of the stuff the vets give (it was leftover from Dakota). One was diluted tea tree oil. The other two have the tea tree oil but also a variety of other components (including coconut oil). I DO give Kaiser coconut oil with his meals once a day, and I have tried using it on a cotton ball to wipe his ears AFTER I've cleaned (however I haven't used just the coconut oil on a regular basis).

Kaiser does get at least a couple of hours of exercise/day a few times a week. Aside from that, its at least one hour plus more obedience (or more obedience, if its raining outside). I try not to be the weekend warrior, lol, because I really don't want him to get injured, but I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that he would let me know when he had enough. I'll look into the supplements you suggested. Wobenzene....if its a pancreatic enzyme, is it still safe to give even though his body is also producing it? Willow bark sounds promising. That plus something with anti-inflammatory properties might work. I'll google more when I get home or at lunch
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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5. Are there any special precautions?
  • Wobenzym®N should not be taken by individuals who are pregnant or breast feeding
  • Wobenzym®N should not be taken by individuals suffering from bleeding disorders or liver damage
  • Wobenzym®N should not be taken by individuals who are on anticoagulant drugs (such as Warfarin)
  • Wobenzym®N should not be taken in combination with Aspirin
  • Wobenzym®N can be taken with antibiotics
So no on both together (willow bark and wobbies)

Pancreatin works as scavenger for free floating protiens causing inflammation when not used as a digestive aid. It is also indicated for cancer or prevention treatment.

I tried many things for my dogs ear...and after using the coconut oil 1-2x/wk, for 3 weeks (the debris was less and less), it just stopped...did a couple more times over couple months as a little junk was produced...and then maybe a couple more times since...no junk coming up, just a little swab in the crevices at base of ear which may have been dirt from rubbing his head in the grass. The only thing that worked.

Wobenzym N ? Mucos Pharma, Joint health supplement, Chymotrypsin, Boost immune system
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have seen cattle bones do a number on an aggressive chewer's teeth. Cyra the one with HD and extensive remodeling - is the one who took her premolars down to the gum on cattle bones. I had thrown some from a farm bone pit into the backyard and she had a field day.

Ball play can still get them if the ball picks up saliva and dirt. One of the things I like about the orbee ultra balls is they seem to stay pretty clean.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I would not give any weight bearing bones. I even stopped knuckle bones after one of mine cracked her tooth on it. Only antlers and bully sticks for us. I would get rid of that marrow bone.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Can't comment on the teeth. Our previous dog who lived until 8 years old, only had a broken tooth as an issue when she was about 5-6. The only time I've seen a dog with really worn teeth was one who chewed rocks.

Ears- Our Molly is 2 1/2 and she only had to have her ears cleaned once. When she gets a bath I wipe her ears with a washcloth, but if I forgot they would still look good.

Exercise - each dog is different. Although we've never done 3-5 hour hike, 2 hours in the shade seemed tolerable with no soreness. At training which is very active, if it's hot, she wants to leave after 35 minutes. Yesterday, we met with a GSD play group, it was warm, she was done playing after 45 minutes and happy to go in the car. On those types of days, she will still get a 15 minute walk before dinner, then mild exercise for about 45 minutes in the evening.

I've had two neighbors, one with a Rottweiler and one with a Husky that overexercised their dogs as pups, running 5 miles or 4 hours active time at the beach, which caused permanent injuries to the dogs.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok soreness. I have not had any whine, but Cyra was a drama queen and would scream if she had a sharp pain, else I could tell because she just moved a little stiffly. She did have bad HD though and I am sure sometimes she had sharp pains though most of the time you would not have known anything was wrong with her.

Grim is getting older and I can tell some days he is a little stiff, a little bit more effort to get get up.

The older dogs seem to be more bothered by wet and cold but, heck, I am no spring chicken, have a metal plate in my ankle, and I do too!
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