Advice on Giving and Taking Advice from the Internet/Forums - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 11:21 AM
Crowned Member
 
Gwenhwyfair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,668
Anubis Star..

I'd like to add we see this in the training sub forum more frequently as well, especially with aggression issues.
Gwenhwyfair is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 03:40 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Coeur d' Alene
Posts: 4,418
This has concerned me also. I've seen these gentle warnings before but I seems some still persist in giving medical advise.

Question. If we see a post of this nature and click on the "report" button, will the moderator delete the post and insert a warning sentence about giving medical advise?

As far as I can see, some are not stopping, and those are probably the dangerous ones.... Thank You.
Stonevintage is offline  
post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 03:56 PM
Moderator
 
gsdsar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,518
So, it's a grey area. It's not illegal to give medical advice if you are not a Dr. It IS illegal to prescribe medication, make a diagnosis if you are not a Dr.

However, telling someone to give an over the counter anti diahrrea medicine is not illegal. At all. Unless said person says, "your dog has blankly blank disease and I am going to fax you an RX for blanky blank medicine". However, and here come grey,

If you are a Dr., and have set up an online website, take an email, discuss the dogs problem and then RX an item. That is actually legal. To have a legal client/patient/dr relationship, ceryain things must be met. And that would actually meet them, if the Dr is available to follow the case after RX the meds.

Any person can legally say, " when my pup had loose stool, I gave them pepto, fixed them right up" and that is not illegal.

Now, more grey area, as a veterinary technician, I am held to different standards, because my education is different. Same as EMT and paramedics. We CANNOT go outside the scope of our trAining legally. So, how does this affect this argument.... A person is choking, the Heimlich does not work, person passes out. A total civilian would generally not be held liable if he got a knife and did s trach. A trained EMT or Medic would be fired and prosecuted for going above their scope of knowledge. The total civi would be covered under the "Good Samaritan" law. (Very extreme example, for examples sake)

Now that law is not a blanket law. But it protects those trying to help from being sued for hurting a patient while trying to help. Breaking ribs is common during CPR. This protects citizens from being blamed for trying to help. Those broken ribs can puncture a lung and kill a patient.

The more training you have, the more responsible you are for what you do. Someone showing off their CPR cert card, needs to do CPR correctly, or they can be held liable.

But on an Internet forum. Any schmuck can give medical advice, as long as they are not pretending to be a Dr, making a diagnosis and prescribing a medicine.

"So that others may live"
gsdsar is online now  
 
post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 04:38 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Coeur d' Alene
Posts: 4,418
I wasn't necessarily thinking about the legalities of it, rather the inappropriateness of it.

I have seen conversations with the least bit of what might have brought about a political discussion get sniffed in a hurry. I have also seen overheated conversations be shut down or have content removed.

Wouldn't a conversation that could possibly lead to the death of a GSD be worthy of removal or warning?
Stonevintage is offline  
post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 04:45 PM
Moderator
 
gsdsar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonevintage View Post
I wasn't necessarily thinking about the legalities of it, rather the inappropriateness of it.



I have seen conversations with the least bit of what might have brought about a political discussion get sniffed in a hurry. I have also seen overheated conversations be shut down or have content removed.



Wouldn't a conversation that could possibly lead to the death of a GSD be worthy of removal or warning?

You make a good point. But unless the advice is so horrible (beat your dog over the head with a metal pole until it stops barking) that death or severe harm is a KNOWN outcome, then it's up to members to be responsible and research medical advice. Pepto, immodium, are not GUARANTEED to kill a dog. They can be used successfully. There are risks. And it's up to an owner to do their due diligence before giving their animal something mentioned on the Internet. Again. Obnoxious gray area

"So that others may live"
gsdsar is online now  
post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-14-2015, 11:44 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 29,898
Uhm, my vet told me to use pepto.

They don't like pepto, and immodium comes in pills that I can fling down their throats. So I use that instead. The vet said that was ok too.

A vet can listen to symptoms over the phone, and tell you to give hydrogen peroxide to get the dog to throw up -- been there, done that.

My thing is to have as much information as possible, call the vet and let them make the call as to whether I should bring the critter in or not. Knowing what the temperature is, and whether they ate their food this morning, etc. along with whatever symptoms I was seeing gives them the info they need, then they can tell me to bring her right up, or make an appointment for her tomorrow, or rush her to the ER, or take two immodiums and call me in the morning.

But, I agree, most of the advice on threads about dogs acting strangely, or sickness ought to be, "call your vet and tell them this" or "get in the car now and get your pup to the vet ASAP!"

But dogs do not talk and tell their symptoms, and when they are stressed, they mask a lot. And our breed is prone to many diseases, and here you have a lot of people who have seen a lot of them. Sometimes it is helpful for us to know what questions to ask and what tests we want a vet to run when we go to the vet. So asking about medical issues here does have a lot of value. At the end of the day, people need to realize that they are responsible for their pet's healthcare, and they really shouldn't make decisions solely on what somebody told them in a public forum.

Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Hepzibah
selzer is offline  
post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 12:07 AM
Senior Member
 
nezzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 256
I think part of the problem with getting advice off the internet is people will always attempt to self-medicate and that itself is fine, for humans at least. If we have a headache, we go pop a few pills of aspirin, or if we have a cold, we go pop a chlorpheniramine. And if our symptoms don't ease, we go to the doc. For the most part this works because we are able to articulate and understand what is wrong.

But when dogs are in pain, they cannot communicate their symptoms to us. In any medical diagnosis, information is key. For example, if it is diarrhea, it could be indigestion, parasites, IBS or a plethora of other things. As a human, you could probably guess what is wrong; did I eat too much or did I eat something dirty and you could communicate this. Dogs do not have that level of sophistication to tell us how they got that diarrhea, so all we can go on is history of our dogs' diet and environment and attempt to treat it. But this information you have can be incomplete, especially when trying to articulate this to someone over the internet when seeking advice. It is totally different as opposed to in-person.

That said, even MDs and vets do get diagnosis wrong sometimes and you need two or three trips to the doc to get things right, and they are right there in front of you trying to treat you or your dog.

So unless you're really confident, I don't think anyone should self-medicate any animal. But of course, you shouldn't knee jerk yourself into bringing your animal to the vet at every instance of loose poo for instance, unless it is an emergency. Sometimes being too knee jerk can be harmful to the animal too, stress of transportation and visiting the vet can aggravate simple illnesses. Dogs are just as resillient as humans and just as we can sleep off a flu, so can dogs.
nezzz is offline  
post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 12:50 AM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 29,898
Actually, for some of us, writing it out on the internet is a lot less stressful, and we probably remember more than we when we are standing there, having our 5 minutes with the vet. How many times have I remember the rest of the story while driving the dog home?

Typing it out first might actually be very helpful.

Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Hepzibah
selzer is offline  
post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 01:09 AM
Senior Member
 
nezzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 256
Writing things down is actually a good idea. Thats because you're seated down, slowly typing and detailing everything you've observed, versus rushing through telling the vet everything in one breath.

Still just because we're not MDs or vets, they do detect details which we did not think were necessary. For example, to most of us, red spots would just be a rash, but to a doc, red spots could be a plethora of things like ringworm, mange, allergies, etc... depending on how they are laid out on skin, to most of us, red spots are just red spots.
nezzz is offline  
post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 01:13 AM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 29,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzz View Post
Writing things down is actually a good idea. Thats because you're seated down, slowly typing and detailing everything you've observed, versus rushing through telling the vet everything in one breath.

Still just because we're not MDs or vets, they do detect details which we did not think were necessary. For example, to most of us, red spots would just be a rash, but to a doc, red spots could be a plethora of things like ringworm, mange, allergies, etc... depending on how they are laid out on skin, to most of us, red spots are just red spots.
Red spots? Staph infection -- usually, at least on my girls.

Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Hepzibah
selzer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome