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Old 12-29-2011, 01:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I was reading about fluid intake. Will she need extra electrolytes? If so, what do I give her? I assume things like gatorade with all their sugar are bad. the owner of the natural food store told me water, lemon juice and sea salt is "natural" gatorade.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A lot of useful info here:

DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks. I think this is our fault. We didn't get her teeth done when she was 10 because she had a re-occurrence of growths that looked like the mast cell she had before. So we decided to let her be, thinking the mast cell cancer would take her long before now. Two years later, here we are and her teeth should have been taken out two years ago. We did this to her by making the wrong choice.
I'm sure it wasn't just that, although dental disease can cause heart and kidney problems. The kidneys are constantly filtering the blood and any other foreign substances along with bacteria, can really wreak havoc.
If it's mild, I'd suggest getting the teeth out and keeping her on antibiotics for up to a month, at the very least, 2 straight weeks. This may help mend the kidneys some.

When our little Dachshund ate ibuprofen and almost killed himself, he was left with mild kidney failure. We were advised to put him on "diet" kibble. We chose Avoderm at 18% protein, but they changed formulas. The best we can do now is Natural Balance as it's lower in fat, protein and calories. That is what I'd advise you feed your dog. It's good nutrition and would meet the "diet food" requirement of lower protein, not that you want to avoid the protein but a reduced amount will give the kidneys a break.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I was reading about fluid intake. Will she need extra electrolytes? If so, what do I give her? I assume things like gatorade with all their sugar are bad. the owner of the natural food store told me water, lemon juice and sea salt is "natural" gatorade.
No, just water is fine. Water and a quality diet will replace whatever electrolytes she may be losing.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I kept our late Blue alive for over 3 years using a protocol developed by Lew Olson www.b-naturals.com (look in the newsletter/recipe section for info.) and he was in a chronic state throughout - we had to give subcutaneous fluids on a regular basis. It doesn't sound as though your dog is that far along, but an appropriate diet is key to management. (And contrary to what a lot of vets will tell you your dog NEEDS protein. You just have to watch the phosphorus levels). Lew told me to put Blue on 50% protein/50%carbohydrates. A typical meal for him consisted of raw hamburger (you can also lightly cook it if you like) or chicken, pork or lamb, plus a mixture of Japanese (sticky) rice, and sweet potato or squash. He could have butter, cream, or grated cheese to spark up the taste and add calories.You use ground eggshell (NOT bonemeal, which is high in phosphorus) for calcium. It's a simple diet, and there are variations, such as using Malt-O-Meal instead of rice, and egg whites. See the website for other ingredients, and necessary supplements. CoQ10 is one of them......

Another good resource is www.dogaware.com
where you can find tables listing the phosphorus counts of many different foods.

I did not give anything but water for liquid - but he was getting additonal items in the subcu. fluids.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I was reading about fluid intake. Will she need extra electrolytes? If so, what do I give her? I assume things like gatorade with all their sugar are bad. the owner of the natural food store told me water, lemon juice and sea salt is "natural" gatorade.

I don't have time to do it right now (I have family coming in for 2nd round of holiday madness)....the one thing I can think of is Raw Apple cidar vinegar, but would have to "investigate" further. Only issue I am not sure on is it may have too much potassium. Worth researching though I know it can help balance nutrient losses and is chalked full of good stuff. Other than that, you could do subq injections at home I believe as a maintenance if your vet feels it is necessary.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Please do not use anything with sodium in it for your dog..kidney disease causes hi blood pressure and so does salt and electrolytes ask your vet about supplements.
It is correct to advise a low protein diet and you are.correct about the phosphorous!
It cannot be flushed by the kidneys and gathers and causes crystals in the blood stream, this can be taken care with a phosphorous binder taken with meals.
Another blood level to keep an eye on is potassium,it can be either hi or low.

You need to ask about the Gfr, glomer filtration rate, it is an index in which you see how far the disease has progressed
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I already posted the supplement suggestions on the other board. I would order those--I know many people who have used them for dogs and they really helped.

Cleo's rotten teeth were pulled and that didn't change her kidney values in any way.

SubQs are not recommended for regular use until they are necessary. Until then add water to her regular diet and provide her with lots of water bowls and preferably one of those fountains with the circulating water.

Cleo had CRF and peed every few hours so that may be the reason for the peeing on the floor.

You don't need a phosphorous binder until the phosphorous is high. Cleo had CRF for 3 years and never needed a binder. In fact, her phosphorous levels came down.

You want high quality proteins. I know in cats it's recommended to stay away from beef and other red meats (harder to process) and not to give too much fish.

I'm sure there's a yahoo group for CRF in dogs. I found the one for cats very helpful for Cleo
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I printed your post, Ruth. Thanks for those. Carmen's probiotic supplement has all of what the one has plus. I'm reading about binders right now. Says if her levels don't come down then add binders. Looking up nutrient info on the food we already have mixed up. Unfortunately turkey neck which seems to be crazy high but I'll see if I can balance it out with vege's or have to feed it to another.

Looks like I need to change her diet and get her levels retested in a month from what I'm reading. Still haven't talked to the vet. He had some emergency farm calls so she is in surgery right now.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Look up egg whites. I remember that those are low in phosphorous. Perhaps you can supplement with those.

Are her phos levels high now?

And remember that BUN is hydration while Creatine is an indicator of overall kidney function.
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